Open mike 29/08/2022

Written By: notices and features - Date published: - 102 comments
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102 comments on “Open mike 29/08/2022”

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  1. 1

    Darin Brown was next on the list. He had never run for office and works as a concreter.

    He said he was not vaccinated against Covid-19, but still not against vaccinations.

    "I am not an anti-vaxxer, no way am I an anti-vaxxer, I'm just a pro-choicer, that's it."

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/473465/local-elections-high-turnout-of-council-candidates-in-gisborne-district

    A Gisborne mayoral candidate is standing by a controversial picture on social media which shows him standing in a hazmat suit with a swastika on the front.

    Other posts from Brown included him saying he wanted to cut down 5G towers in January 2020, and writing expletives in October 2018 about people at the speedway letting off fireworks that scared his horses.

    Brown's wife, Jen Brown, also features heavily in the posts that have been compiled.

    She confirmed she was a member of Voices For Freedom, a group which has encouraged its followers to run for councils to push its agenda.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/473623/gisborne-council-candidates-stand-by-controversial-posts

    Yea. This couple sound totally reasonable. NOT! Indeed, good to know who they really are….

  2. 2

    So we have an ' unofficial ' force of nz soldiers fighting in Ukraine under the genius description of ' unpaid leave ' mightive missed it but i dont remember that being debated in parliament .No wonder its not just a matter of picking up the phone to find out where the body of a dead soldier is !!!

    listening to JA being interview on RNZ this morn ive never heard her sounding more evasive or slippery .In between the ducking an diving she sayes bla bla bla " and the war is against Russia " could've been my imagination but it sounded like there was a definite mote of glee in that sentence …..

      1. 2.3.1

        Got your rocks off baby?

        Did you not know that the Military personnel are supposed to be prevented from engaging in undeclared wars? If the government has declared war on behalf of its US masters we are in for a real shitfest that even NATO wont risk!!

        1. 2.3.1.1

          Clearly the government hasn't declared war on anyone. Go sit down and have a cup of tea or you're going to have an aneurysm over one AWOL soldier who wanted to see action.

          1. 2.3.1.1.1

            So, Populuxe1, if the government hasn't declared war on anyone, then why are NZ defence force personnel allowed to go and fight in the Ukraine while they're "on leave"? Are they mercenaries?

            1. 2.3.1.1.1.1

              Given they are both volunteers (not recruited) and not motivated by the desire for private monetary gain then no, they fail mercenary test conditions a) and c) of the Geneva convention.

              Volunteering to fight fascism is not being a mercenary.

              They are, in fact, heroes of freedom loving people everywhere.

            2. 2.3.1.1.1.2

              Probably because he didn't tell them he was going to fight in Ukraine because they're not allowed to? Don't call it "the Ukraine" – it's a sovereign state.
              I find it extraordinary you can't conceive that he asked for leave on some pretext or other, it was granted, he flew to Europe and made his way to Ukraine all on his own. It's not that difficult.
              Had he survived and been found out it would have brought him before a Court Martial and he almost certainly would have been dishonourably discharged.

          2. 2.3.1.1.2

            WTF – Talk about an exaggerating drama queen – you really take the cake.

            Perhaps you also need to read before you insult. It has been reported there may be as many as 100 in Crimea not just one.

            1. 2.3.1.1.2.1

              It has been reported there may be as many as 100 in Crimea not just one.

              What are they doing in Crimea when the action is in Donbas? There's no on the ground fighting in Crimea.
              There may be – then again, there may not be.
              I would be very much surprised if that number was all active personnel – you might have to provide a source as it sounds like you're conflating ex-service people, civilian volunteers and, for all I know, NZ mercenaries based elsewhere.

              Talk about an exaggerating drama queen

              Look who's talking.

                1. 2.3.1.1.2.1.1.1

                  Um, being on leave without pay is actually a thing. It doesn't automatically mean they're fighting in Ukraine.

                  An employer might consider agreeing to a period of leave without pay, for example:

                  • if an employee doesn’t have enough annual holidays to cover the time they want to take off work, or
                  • if an employee doesn't have enough sick leave to cover a period of illness or injury
                  • for study leave
                  • for a sabbatical
                  • if the employee can’t take parental leave or negotiated carer leave.

                  https://www.employment.govt.nz/leave-and-holidays/other-types-of-leave/leave-without-pay/

                  1. 2.3.1.1.2.1.1.1.1

                    You have proved you can do research, even if following a 'wrong line', so don't bother asking for links. The nub of the matter is and always was that the Military, for good reason, are required to follow different rules.

      2. 2.3.2

        Fascists, private military companies, organised crime, secret services and ultranationalists.

        https://twitter.com/den_kazansky/status/1563753741697916928

        Fighting raccoons. How Russian patriots became mercenaries, contacted FSB officers and turned into bandits

        […]

        The history of the appearance of the scandalous PMC is interesting in its own way. Its creator is considered the leader of the nationalist movement "Bright Russia" Igor Mangushev. During the escalation of the conflict in the Donbass, he, together with like-minded people, thought about how to give an official status to the actions of the Donbass militias.

        In the spring of 2014, reports began to appear that Mangushev and other representatives of the "Light Russia" went to the Donbass on a humanitarian mission together with the Moscow Region branch of the People's Cathedral movement. It was headed by Roman Telenkevich, aka Vodyanoy – he had such a call sign in those years.

        https://lenta.ru/articles/2021/12/06/enot/

        google translate

    4. 2.4

      The magnified image of purported ideals:

      where once we would have joined and fought with unity, now we give them training and weapons.

      Those who actually fight are now deniable oddballs for diplomats to solve. No RSA plaque for them.

      Ukraine is now the world's largest virtue signal.

      2. 2.4.2

        You could have said the same thing for the International Brigades in Spain, although these days such is middle class flatulence that makes up so much the modern left's intellectual community you would be unlikely to find any of the West's left wing journalists, novelists, activists and poets in the trenches of the Donbas fighting Putin's fascists.

        They prefer these days to sit about on message boards and find excuses for their decadent cowardice in handwringing about the nature of Zelensky's government and seeing false equivalence everywhere.

    5. 2.5

      So we have an ' unofficial ' force of nz soldiers fighting in Ukraine under the genius description of ' unpaid leave ' mightive missed it but i dont remember that being debated in parliament .

      Um, no. Sounds like an individual wanted an adventure or felt deeply enough for the cause to volunteer. You know, like Orwell fighting in the Spanish Civil War. It happens. At worst he failed to resign from the NZDF, which, had he lived, would probably have earned him a court martial and dishonourable discharge.

      1. 2.5.1

        Nah, it was clearly a nod and wink arrangement, a version of don't ask don't tell. Soldier asks for leave without pay to do something and army approves, while respecting the soldiers right to take a holiday without them prying in.

        It would only become a political problem if it turned out an entire company of our guys were there. A dozen or so is is just caveat emptor for them.

        1. 2.5.1.1

          You read far too many Robert Ludlum novels. He wasn't SAS and was fighting in an international brigade. Even if we were to get involved, which would be highly unlikely as our forces aren't really trained for slogging through Eastern European mud in the winter, we certainly wouldn't be sending ordinary soldiers.

    6. 2.6

      I am intrigued at the number of people who seem to have a bizarre view that our government (a) is somehow able to and should be tracking NZ citizens that go abroad, perhaps particularly if they are on leave from the Defence Force, and (b) are somehow organising a group of people on leave from defence to go to the Ukraine to volunteer to fight. Re (a) any government tracking New Zealanders going overseas would be regarded as wasting money, and re (b) that is so unlikely as to be farcical. There was an implication in one news report that had the soldier returned he may have been disciplined for his actions

  3. 3

    Just after midnight tonight, the Artemis I program is launched using the SLS (Space Launch System). I am old enough to remember the Saturn V rockets of the Apollo program. In the next 24 hours we will hopefully see his twin sister, Artemis, rise on the most powerful rocket ever built. Artemis will eventually carry 46 tonnes to trans-lunar injection – three tonnes more than the most powerful Saturn V rocket.

    What a sight it is going to be.

    1. 3.1

      Most powerful rocket ever built was actually the Russian N1 moon rocket, but blew up after a successful liftoff. So you're right if you say "most powerful (successful) rocket ever built ".

      1. 3.1.1

        A rocket that blows up after launch is a major life fail, if you are a rocket. It begs the existential question all rockets must ask themselves in the quiet early morning dark sitting on the launch pad waiting – if a rocket blows up on launch, is it really a rocket?

  4. 4

    Luxon on youth crime – empty bullshit, but dangerous too. Has the f*wit learned nothing from the Royal Commission into State Child Care?

    It also signals the end of Bed-leg Sam: if Luxon welcomes him back into the cosy embrace of the Natz after being so outspoken on youth punishment, he'll look a right hypocrite!

    https://twitter.com/rugbyintel/status/1563730397976207360

      1. 4.2.1

        I really don't think anyone cares about Sam Uffindel.

        You're right – no one cares about Uffindel.

        Bad news for Sam Uffindell.

        Uffindell otoh – well, some Kiwis care about how the Gnat's tried and true candidate selection process delivered an MP who admitted to assaulting a 13-year old, if not to other historical character defects.

        Give me a child until he is 7 and I will show you the man. – Aristotle/Loyola

        Might some Gnat supporters care at least a little? [I know I would!]
        Maybe, but certainly not those who consider Uffindell-style japes, hijinks and shenanigans par for the course.

        Here's another pearl, just for you wink

        95% of everything you do is the result of habit.

        1. 4.2.1.1

          No-one cares. National buried it by actually holding an enquiry (you know, like the one Labour won't hold), and then with Labour's mishandling of Mr Sharma. One day soon the media will report on the outcome of the enquiry, and all will be forgotten.smiley

              1. 4.2.1.1.1.1.1

                Yes, you don't care – see @4.2.1.1.1. We (you & me) agree – you don't care.

                Still, curious that one who really doesn't care would labour the point so wink

              2. 4.2.1.1.1.1.2

                Yet you're onto your third post to me on this.

                Yes, because contrary to your "No-one cares." assertion @4.2.1.1, I care.
                Btw, that's your 3rd post to me on this – shows just how little you care laugh

                Oh, you cared enough to delete your comment – there's hope for you yet.

          2. 4.2.1.1.2

            What mishandling? Hold an inquiry into what? Sharma bullying his staff is not in dispute. National are keeping the results of the inquiry private.

            1. 4.2.1.1.2.1

              "What mishandling?"

              Letting an MP spend weeks dragging the party through a trial by media.

              "Hold an inquiry into what? "

              Accusations against Sharma of bullying. Accusations by Sharma he was bullied. Allegations about MP's being coached to bypass OIA obligations. There's no shortage of material. Mind you, Labour have form for trying to bury stuff.

              1. 4.2.1.1.2.1.1

                Well, so much for Sharma falsely claiming he has been silenced. Labour is not responsible for his atrocious behaviour.

                Sharma bullying his staff is not in dispute, his allegations are unfounded and he has not produced any evidence to back up his claims.

                Your link doesn't prove what you claim. The person in question was a guest and it as dealt with by the courts.

                1. 4.2.1.1.2.1.1.1

                  "The person in question was a guest and it as dealt with by the courts."

                  Oh a 'guest' were they. This 'guest' was (depending upon what you mean) the victim or perpetrator of sexual assault. And it was only after Newsroom broke the story that the "party was shocked into action".

                  Meanwhile, Sharma, for all you claim he has nothing, is making headlines again today.

                  1. 4.2.1.1.2.1.1.1.1

                    So what? Sharma is an attention seeker and is just raving, he still has not produced any evidence to back up his claims.

                    A guest as in invited and was not a Labour party member.

                    Some charges were dropped and downgraded.

                    "There had also been no suggestion, and no evidence, that the offender has any personal connection to the present Labour Party or any member of it, the judge added"

                    "At sentencing, Judge Collins also said: "I'm not convinced it was for a sexual gratification or any perverted motive.

                    While not an excuse, the judge added the man's actions were "born out of drunken stupidity"

                    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/labour-party-summer-camp-case-high-court-dismisses-suppression-bid-as-young-man-fights-for-secrecy/SFSSNY5ZU7SUYWIJ62HLPO443Y/

                    1. 4.2.1.1.2.1.1.1.1.1

                      "A guest as in invited and was not a Labour party member."

                      You are now justifying the behaviour. Congratulations. I'll take your allegations about Sharma with a grain of salt.

                    2. 4.2.1.1.2.1.1.1.1.2

                      No I am not LibertyBelle. Did you not read the post?

                      "There had also been no suggestion, and no evidence, that the offender has any personal connection to the present Labour Party or any member of it, the judge added"

                      Not allegations, just stating the fact that Sharma hasn't produced any evidence, I noticed you haven't come up with any. No one should condone Sharma bullying his staff.

                    4. 4.2.1.1.2.1.1.1.1.4

                      You are the one that had an issue with the fact that the person in question was a guest. The party didn't cover it up, the article is an opinion.

                    5. 4.2.1.1.2.1.1.1.1.5

                      "Again, investigation into what?"

                      Asked and answered. Sharma has only asked for one thing, AFAIK. An independent inquiry into the employment issues he has raised. The horse has bolted now, but why didn't they just conduct that investigation? Unless they have something to hide.

                  2. 4.2.1.1.2.1.1.1.2

                    Sharma, for all you claim he has nothing, is making headlines again today.

                    If he stole a toddler's candy he'd make bigger headlines. So?

                    As I'm sure you've noticed, the political journos aren't giving credence to his rants any more. Who can blame them?

                    1. 4.2.1.1.2.1.1.1.2.1

                      Perhaps. But Labour have botched this up, and they have a renegade running amok with accusations. They could have cauterised this with an investigation into the employment issues, but for reasons best known only to themselves, they won't.

                    2. 4.2.1.1.2.1.1.1.2.2

                      Again, investigation into what? Sharma bullying his staff is not in dispute. You have no evidence to back up your claim LibertyBelle.

                    3. 4.2.1.1.2.1.2.1.1.3

                      "Still doesnt prove your point LibertyBelle"

                      Which part of a three week delay don't you understand?

                      "… and it was up to the complainants whether they wanted to tell their parents etc, at the time they chose not to, but felt pressured by media, one of the complainants said it became a political football."

                      That's actually quite seedy. It's not solely up to the complainants to tell the police. They were 16 FFS. "support was only made available to victims on Saturday, a three-week delay, possibly in recognition a story would be coming out." This is disgusting treatment, and politically motivated.

                    4. 4.2.1.1.2.1.2.1.1.4

                      Still doesn't support your claim LibertyBelle. It is not seedy, at 16 years old, it was entirely up the complainants who they told or not, which is their legal right.

                  2. 4.2.1.1.2.1.2.1.2

                    Labour decided to deal with accusations of misconduct by a non member sensitively and in a manner that protected victims.

                    National decided to protect and promote a member charged with crimes almost too horrible for words.

                    There is no comparison.

                    1. 4.2.1.1.2.1.2.1.2.1

                      "Labour decided to deal with accusations of misconduct by a non member sensitively and in a manner that protected victims."

                      "However, Newsroom's editor Tim Murphy told Morning Report the affected teenagers didn't get much support until the day before the story was due to break. He said support was only made available to victims on Saturday, a three-week delay, possibly in recognition a story would be coming out. He said a senior cabinet MP was also told about the assault by one of the victims who was dissatisfied with the way it was handled. "It seems to have fallen into a big hole from the event to now," he said."

                    2. 4.2.1.1.2.1.2.1.2.2

                      Still doesnt prove your point LibertyBelle and it was up to the complainants whether they wanted to tell their parents etc, at the time they chose not to, but felt pressured by media, one of the complainants said it became a political football.

      2. 4.2.2

        Oh people care about uffindell.

        But they know that rich privileged people really face justice so shrug their shoulders and think so it goes.

  5. 5

    The state of Victoria will now pay the entire course costs for its nurses and midwives.

    The Vic opposition immediately agrees with the pledge.

    Any time Labour. Or National.

      1. 5.1.1

        Plus undermine attempts by the local workforce to settle their seemingly eternal pay parity negotiations.

        With advisors Little listens to who needs Tories?

        2. 5.2.1.2

          They don't need NZ residency to "fuck off to…..Australia"

          Australia is giving them immediate residency unconditionally – they neither need nor benefit from having NZ residency 'first' (and actually may be worse off – it's a lot more beneficial long term, if you're resident in Australia, to become an Australian citizen, rather than a NZ resident/citizen)

          The justification for putting nurses in the second tier of immigration is looking more and more threadbare.

          Perhaps it's time for Minister Wood to review the situation:

          as I've said consistently along the way: the outcome is what matters. I'll be keeping a close eye on how the settings go, bearing in mind the whole system only really kicked in from yesterday.

          "If we need to make adjustments as we move forward to get to the outcomes, then I'll certainly be open to doing that."

          https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/470399/minister-open-to-immigration-changes-for-nurses-if-new-system-fails

            1. 5.2.1.2.2.1

              If you meet the criteria (recognized nursing qualification from an approved provider) my understanding is that it is 'unconditional'. You certainly don't have to have a job, or even a job offer, nor do you have to be working for 2 years to gain residency.

              Those are the elements where Australia and New Zealand differ.

              It seems as though it is more difficult and time-consuming to gain PR in NZ, for nurses, than it is in Oz; and you certainly don't get in with lower qualifications (although Australia also has a pathway to residency through studying nursing programme).

              Really, I think that the perception that there were significant numbers of immigrant nurses trying to gain NZ residency as a backdoor into Australia, is a chimera. It might have been true in the past – though I don't really think it's very likely – but certainly hasn't been true for the last few years.

              This article talks about the unhappiness with the current delays in processing skilled migrant (nursing) visas in Oz – and what the govt is proposing to do about it.

              So, Australia doesn’t have it exactly right yet, but is actively working on the elements which are hindering the process.

              https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/visas-for-nurses-must-be-fast-tracked-to-fill-critical-shortages-20220824-p5bcbj.html

              1. 5.2.1.2.2.1.1

                [Australian] Assistant Trade Minister Tim Ayres said on Friday that the government had “some work to do” to bring more skilled migrants into the country, while Skills and Training Minister Brendan O’Connor said “we need to increase the permanent skilled migration pathway.”

                Good clarification – "immediate residency unconditionally" didn't ring true.

                Aotearoa, being Australia’s poorer, smaller sister, may have to do a bit more work with less. Number 8 wire only goes so far.

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_8_wire#In_language_and_culture

                1. 5.2.1.2.2.1.1.1

                  I was speaking in the context of the OP – who was commenting on NZ-trained immigrant nurses (who can't get residency without spending another 2 years here, away from their families) – leaving for Australia.
                  So the 'qualified' was implied, in my comment.

                  Really, the assumption that immigrant nurses will only use NZ as a backdoor to Australia doesn't seem to be based on anything apart from rather dated anecdata. Time for the Minister to bite the bullet, and actually review the settings.

                  1. 5.2.1.2.2.1.1.1.1

                    Apologies if I my brief reply (@5.2.1.2.2) failed to make it clear that I was questioning the veracity of a specific assertion @5.2.1.2, to wit:

                    Australia is giving them [NZ-trained and qualified immigrant nurses?] immediate residency unconditionally –

                    The veracity of "immediate residency unconditionally" in that context seemed doubtful, and your reply @5.2.1.2.2.1 was a good clarification.

                    Note, for example, the apparent incongruity between "immediate residency unconditionally" (@5.2.1.2) and "current delays in processing skilled migrant (nursing) visas in Oz" (@5.2.1.2.2.1).

                    1. 5.2.1.2.2.1.1.1.1.1

                      Looks like we're down to debating the semantics.

                      In the context of my comment on the original link – 'immediately' referred to 'once the visa is processed'. Contrasting the situation in Australia, where there is no requirement for a 2 year 'probation' period before residency is granted; while in NZ the nurse has to work for 2 years before residency is granted.

                      So when the nurse has their approved visa (a process which is technically identical so far as qualifications are concerned in both countries) – Australia has 'immediate residence unconditionally' while NZ has a 2 year delay, as well as requirements over where you have to work, and (possibly- I haven't checked recently) a requirement to have a job offer, before applying. NZ PR is not 'immediate' and not 'unconditional'.

                      Nurses have been pointing out that difference, highlighting that the Australian model is much more attractive for families – who can settle in 'immediately' rather than family members not being eligible for work or uni, etc, because of the lack of PR status of the parent (and, in NZ, apparently not even able to come, in some circumstances). As well as the natural uncertainty of whether the Government will change the rules on them part-way through the process.

                  2. 5.2.1.2.2.1.1.1.2

                    Got it – "unconditional" if conditions for a successful visa application are met – thanks for the further clarifications to sort out semantics.

                    Nurses plan to leave NZ over residency rules: 'I can't wait any more' [29 August 2022] (also linked to by LB @5.2)
                    "The work-to-residence path requires two years' work in the role ahead of gaining residence which supports addressing the shortages, whereas a straight-to-residence pathway would not require any time in the role before a worker could potentially leave.

                    "A two-year period ensures a degree of commitment to the role and to New Zealand.

                    Imho, qualifying foreign nurses should be on NZ's ‘immediate residency' priority list, as per Gordon Campbell's recent column, but your "immediate residency unconditionally" framing didn't ring true to me – too hyperbolic even for NZ opposition pollies.

                    Would-be permanent residents living in Australia protest in frustration after overseas visa applicants get priority
                    [18 August 2022]

                    As you and I have noted already, it's not all sweetness and light on the NZ and/or Aus immigration fronts – plenty of tension(s) and competing interests. Funnily enough, on a recent visit to the A&E department at our local hospital, Dad was assessed initially by a nurse who had migrated very recently from Australia. She was excellent, but still getting used to using some of the ECG equipment, including plugging it in – apparently it's not standardised across all DHBs, let alone between NZ and Aus.

                    Aus is a great place to visit, and I wish all who would live there well.

  8. 8

    The forecast isn't too flash.

    https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1563883623673208833

    KYIV, Ukraine — As renewed shelling intensified fears about a nuclear accident at the Zaporizhzhia power plant, the Ukrainian authorities stepped up emergency drills on Saturday and rushed to hand out potassium iodide, a drug that can protect people from radiation-induced thyroid cancer, to tens of thousands of people living near the facility.

    In a country still haunted by the memory of the 1986 Chernobyl nuclear disaster, officials urged the public not to panic even as complex negotiations to allow for a team of scientists from the International Atomic Energy Agency to visit the Russian-controlled plant in southeastern Ukraine took on added urgency.

    https://archive.ph/at5LW (nyt)

    1. 8.1

      Must be serious for China to dip it's oar.

      China has issued a thinly veiled attack on Russia’s brinkmanship over the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant in Ukraine, as fears of disaster escalate following a near-miss at the site.

      A senior Chinese official told the UN on Friday that just one incident might cause a serious nuclear accident “with irreversible consequences for the ecosystem and public health of Ukraine and its neighbouring countries”.

      Geng Shuang, China’s deputy permanent representative at the UN, pointedly called on all parties involved “to exercise maximum restraint strictly abide by international law and minimise the risk of accidents”, adding: ”We must not allow the tragedies of the Chernobyl and Fukushima nuclear accidents to be repeated.”

      https://inews.co.uk/news/world/china-putin-russian-roulette-zaporizhzhia-nuclear-plant-ukraine-disaster-near-miss-russia-1818988

          1. 10.1.1.1.1

            Nothing really, just paste the URL as is in the Text Editor on a separate line and it should work. Your first attempt was not (on) a separate line and your second attempt was an embedded link.

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