Lone nutters and suicide by cop

Written By: lprent - Date published: - 89 comments
Categories: Andrew Little, australian politics, International, making shit up, police, Politics - Tags: , ,

The cafe siege in Sydney is over. The lone nutter there was apparently killed by police after he’d killed a hostage.

The details of the nutter are revealing. See “Profile of Haron Monis, the man behind Sydney cafe siege“. A writer of obnoxious letters. Currently facing charges related to the killing of his ex-wife. With multiple current charges against him for decade old sexual offenses whilst operating as a “spiritual healer” involved in black magic.

It is a picture of a person wrapping their own anger, mental and sexual issues with some rationalisation. The kind of person that MPs and their staffs across the country know only too well in their role as the final resource in the social systems. Some of them go on to commit suicide by cop.

Meanwhile over here, we have our own lone nutters. Some are more dangerous that others. For instance an idiot National MP, Mark Mitchell, talking to Audrey Young. “Country is not immune from extremist actions, says former security specialist”

The MP who chaired the anti-terrorist legislation rushed through Parliament last week, Mark Mitchell, says the bill was “100 per cent” justified.

And he said he had had messages yesterday thanking him for the bill in light of the Sydney hostage crisis.

“It becomes a lot more real for people when it’s three hours across the ditch.”

Huh? This jerkoff MP doesn’t appear to have considered the most likely explanation was always the lone nutter. Instead he joins the hysterical fools in the kiwiblog sewer with urine dribbling down their legs quaking at the prospect of iman invasion and sharia law. In their usual dumbarse response, some of the tools that live there start muttering about mob violence.

How exactly does recent legislation in any way help against lone nutters grabbing a cafe full of people and committing suicide by cop? That was always the most likely explanation.

He doesn’t explain that. However what Mark Mitchell did was make himself look like a unrestrained idiot. Mind you that isn’t hard. Generally anyone so admired by Cameron Slater (as shown in Dirty Politics and the rawshark dumps) is likely to be complete jerk off. It was confirmed that Mark Mitchell is an publicity seeking fool back in August when he claimed that a theft was related to Dirty Politics.

What is a bit irritating is that Andrew Little covered his bets with this pathetic fantasy, albeit in a more restrained way.

Mr Little said last night that it was not yet known whether the Sydney crisis involved somebody connected to a network, or was a lone person or whether it was someone with mental health issues. “But the reality is that the sort of risks that the legislation is designed to deal with are real.

I remain quite unconvinced. To me this legislation looks more like the kind of thing that our rather paranoid security people like to have in hand, not for the ostensible targets, but for their more general surveillance of people inside NZ who push for change.

It has very few safeguards simply because the security forces only have to lay a claim of terrorism without any substantive evidence to use it. As the operation 8 fiasco of 2007 showed, the time and effort involved in the state funded  5 year legal retreat do not provide any effective recourse against such fantasies by security forces.

Somehow I doubt that they will use the powers given to them to track individual lone nutters like Haron Monis or the Aramoana killer David Gray or any of the other similar situations over the years. They have killed and continue to kill more people here than the fantasy terrorist groups. Sadly they appear to not be sexy enough for fear mongering politicians like Mark Mitchell who instead push through legislation that appears pretty useless against the ostensible threats.

That all being said. It looks like the Sydney police did a very good job in containing and minimizing the damage from their lone nutter

89 comments on “Lone nutters and suicide by cop”

Comment numbers have changed to permanent references. Older quoted numbers may no longer identify the same comment.

    1. 1.1

      Indeed.

      Titford is actually quite a good comparison.

      This is the guy who according to his ex-wife and kids, burnt down his house so he could blame it on local iwi.

    1. 2.1

      David Grey was my first thought as well. Its shameful that politicians are using this as a way to defend their anti-democratic impulses. I saw Tau Henare testing the line for National on twitter – I assume it worked well for them, so Key was able to wheel it out.

      On a side note I was really impressed by the Guardian’s live feed of events. I felt updated and in touch without being soiled by sensationalism. Their Australian edition is coming along nicely, it would seem.

    2. 2.2

      He probably doesnt remember them…

      “…Mr Key admitted there was always the risk that a lone wolf could stage a similar attack in New Zealand.

      “There’s the risk that there’s a person that is somehow attracted to the teachings and the kind of message and propaganda that these people [Islamic State] are peddling,” he told TV3’s Firstline.

      “We know that that risk is here in New Zealand, but of course we do everything we can to try and combat that.”

      Mr Key was confident the police could respond appropriately to an attack in New Zealand.

      Australia has contributed military help to the fight against IS, but Mr Key didn’t think the attack was necessarily a result of Australia’s involvement.

      And he said the siege wouldn’t make any difference to New Zealand’s approach to IS, otherwise known as the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS).

      “In the end we have to confront a terrorist group like ISIS.” …”

      1. 2.2.1

        I remember Aramoana and Raumati, but I can’t recall having any opinions about them one way way or the other.

        It was so long ago, and it just wasn’t something I was focused on at the time.

        I didn’t go to any of the shootings myself, but I probably would have if I could have afforded to.

        1. 2.2.1.1

          STOP IT!!!!

          Although I wanted to be PM since I was a boy and first started having “dreams” it never occurred to me to take note of things like Aramoana or the Springbok Tour of 1981 because I thought becoming PM was about how much money you could bring with you, and THATs when I decided to be a currency trader.

  3. 3

    In the current climate, the actions of any mentally unstable person who happens to be Muslim will be used to justify the repressive and anti-democratic laws that have been passed under the guise of controlling terrorism.

    1. 4.1

      A quick interview on ABC News this morning with Monis’ lawyer described the man as a ‘political refugee’ who had suffered very badly in detention. But that his ideology had led him to abandon ‘common sense’ and that he was a ‘damaged individual’.

      Paul Buchanan makes some very good points. While my point elsewhere that the bail process will never be perfect still stands – I’m beginning to wonder exactly how the hell this guy was ever allowed to be released.

        1. 4.1.1.1

          Just as it applies when a pro gun nut case in America goes mad and shoots the place up. Unstable person using an extreemist ideology to try and legitamise their actions.

    2. 4.2

      +100…thanks karol…very good analysis by Paul Buchanan…ie it was a deranged individual and NOT ISIS…..and one wonders why this obviously unstable guy ( Shi’ite not Sunni )with a criminal record and who had killed his wife was let out of prison!….and even then did not have a close police watch put on him to prevent what happened!

      ….the whole thing plays into the hands of those who are trying to frighten the population into increased surveillance ….and which obviously did NOT work in this case…even when there was a guy who obviously should have been watched

      ….also great Post thanks Lprent

        1. 4.2.1.1

          🙄

          Eve believe or not, almost all of the time acts such of these are not the work of some nefarious hidden government or religious group.

          1. 4.2.1.1.1

            Q. Are the departments responsible for letting individuals with records of serious violent offending and mental issues out on bail or parole the work of hidden groups?

            Q. Is letting individuals with records of violent offending and mental issues out into the public a tactic which could used to ensure a ‘climate of fear’ to suit political agendas?

            1. 4.2.1.1.1.1

              Q. Has Australia just been a victim of a society that simply refuses to take alleged sexual crimes seriously enough?

              If yes, THAT is the real warning for NZ which alse has an ambivalent attitude to sexual offending, not some terrorist threat.

            2. 4.2.1.1.1.2

              Answer. Given this mans well-known criminal record and obvious derangement (how often does a man’s own lawyer describe someone in such terms?) – AND the fact that he had already suffered badly in detention before, AND the fact that he was on bail – I think we can categorically throw out the window the idea that he was any kind of ‘lone wold’ unknown to the authorities.

              1. 4.2.1.1.1.2.1

                But really the only harm he has allegedly done was to kill his wife and commit sexual crimes on a bunch of different people, that is bailable surely when we use the

                Valuometer

        2. 4.2.1.2

          For whom was he allegedly the patsy?

          Sometimes people do stuff cos they are mentally ill and or criminally narcassistic and despite the hand wringing of politicians and the vacuous ejacultation of media all milking it for their own means, it remains a single act of violence unrelated to any evil cause.

          1. 4.2.1.2.1

            Yep.

            On the other hand, what did I do when I let my dog off the leash in a paddock full of rabbits on the weekend?

            Dogs will be dogs, you know?

            And we live in a world where Cameron Slater can get prisoners moved around the country at will.

            1. 4.2.1.2.1.1

              Agree and see my other comments about he “only” allegedly killed his wife and sexually abused some folks, nothing really serious

    3. 4.3

      “is this effectively using something inaccurately for political gain”

      This ‘outreach’ line is outrageous – good that this spin is unspun by Paul and the interviewer.

    5. 4.5

      Agreed Karol

      To put things in context you need to listen to Key first.

      “However what Mark Mitchell did was make himself look like a unrestrained idiot.”

      Not to be outdone though key makes an even Bigger idiot of himself.

      Key here.
      http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/20161221/prime-minister-john-key-on-sydney-siege

      Then listen Karol’s link with Dr Paul Buchanan basically call Key a hysterical liar here.
      http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/20161223/could-australia's-involvement-in-fight-against-is-be-to-blame-for-seige

  5. 5

    ‘Authorities outside Philadelphia say six people are dead and one is wounded in multiple homes and the suspect remains on the loose.

    Montgomery County District Attorney Risa Vetri Ferman identified the suspect in the Monday morning shootings as 35-year-old Bradley William Stone. She says all of the victims have a “familial relationship” to Stone.

    Police officers have converged on a home in Pennsburg, about 30 miles northwest of Philadelphia. They are using a megaphone to compel an end to their daylong pursuit of Stone.’

    1. 5.1

      PLease explain what this has to do with anything. Other than another reason not to follow the US example in gun laws and law enforcement.

          1. 5.1.1.1.1

            Another hostage story in the Herald today.

            Belgian police detained three men after reports of a hostage taking in an apartment building in the western city of Ghent overnight. No one was injured in the incident.

            “Federal police spokeswoman Annemie Serlippens excluded any political or terror motive.
            “We are sure that it has nothing to do with terrorism,” Serlippens said. “We think it might be drug related.”

            http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11374685

        2. 5.1.1.2

          mmm…

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers#mediaviewer/File:Rampage_killings_in_the_United_States_(incidence_and_victim_numbers).png

          Hard to draw a definite conclusion – but note that this incident in Sydney does not even meet the six killed minimum to make this list.There is an upward rising trend in the US data – and that does not terribly surprise me. The modern world is damaging more and more individuals and while the majority of them commit suicide out of the public view – some will go that one terrible step further and do something like this.

            1. 5.1.1.2.1.1

              ..and yet the cure is the opposite: warmth, love, laughter, not the chill of fear and the faux security of the dead men and their projected phobia.

    2. 5.2

      Again a lone gunman who will probably be dead by the end of the day if not by his own hands then at the hands of the police.

      However we don’t see NACT or Kiwiblog jumping up and down saying all ex military personel in NZ should be subject to the same sort of loss of rights as is currently being forced upon those of Arab and Muslim decent.

          1. 5.2.1.2.1

            And the more the west sends its young men and women to fight wars of imperial occupation, the more damaged sons and daughters we will bring back home. One only has to check out suicide rates of Iraq and Afghanistan vets in the USA to see how ugly the business of empire is.

  6. 6

    Iprent you’re getting there. Little by little!

    Thing is Australia’s anti terror squad did an anti terror drill one year before this happened on Martin place and another on how to go about solving a hostage situation in a downtown cafe. And the “lone nutter” has been on the radar for a long time. In fact Muslim leaders had called for the police to investigate him as early as 2008!!!!

    1. 6.1

      Not to mention – right wing leader rating very badly after one year in term – is thrown a political lifeline by ‘terrorist’ incident.

    2. 6.2

      Can you link to this bit?

      “..In fact Muslim leaders had called for the police to investigate him as early as 2008!!!!. …”

  7. 7

    Tasmania. 1996. Martin Bryant.

    No Islam there. Just a loner with a low IQ and mental illness who was able to access firearms. He walked into a cafe and killed 36 people. No amount of antI-terror law would have stopped him (though making it harder to purchase a gun would have.)

  8. 8

    What a sorry saga and very sad outcome. A handful of hostage’s left, and 2 of them are dead. With this oppotunist nutcase carrying a criminal sheet a mile long, it was always going to turn out badly the longer the siege went on. So much for the boasting of the Worlds finest armed offenders squad. They should have took this ‘nothing to lose’ attention seeker down early on when he was prancing around by the front window. You would have to say this lunatic should have been in custody pending trial for 47 indecent assault charges.

    Watching Key on First Line this morning spinning events around to justify sending troops to combat ISIS was simply peddling war propaganda. Trying to say categorically “this had nothing to do with Australian troops in the middle east” is total crap! This halfwit is captured on the news protesting their involvement.

      1. 8.1.1

        Key is under instructions to close this deal out, like a good trader does. He will be flying home to America this weekend to give an update. While there he will be debriefed and handed a script (to take to Hawaii to learn) tutoring up on the latest snake oil speak since he has suffered credibility issues i.e. caught out talking crap.

    3. 8.3

      As I said beneath the other post, things went down hill the moment Australian authorities started treating this like a militarised “anti-terrorism” operation instead of a standard armed hostage negotiation.

      1. 8.3.1

        Yes CR I agree totally. To me it appears a failing Abbott’s regime couldn’t help but use the seige as a PR stunt to lift themselves out of the mire. Nothing like a bit of nationalism for a Government polling poorly.

    4. 8.4

      “should have been in custody pending trial for 47 indecent assault charges. “

      Multiple sexual assault charges, accessory to murder, increasingly deranged comments on facebook, prior requests from within his own community for police to investigate – Why was he out running free? (And why are the msm not asking that question?)

  9. 9

    Thanks Lprent, a voice of reason and sanity amongst a sea of rabid right wing loonies. These situations always seem like yet another version of Dog Day Afternoon.

  10. 10

    “David Grey was my first thought as well.”

    Mine was John Tully. I see stargazer has a post up today about beneficiaries not being able to access emergency food grants because in the wake of Ashburton some offices won’t let clients in without ID, or even with ID (plus a bunch of other bureaucratic idiocies). So here we have another situation where the solution to a single, context specific act of violence is to see danger everywhere and to try and control everything but in the process of doing so, the people most at risk of going over the edge are being put under even more pressure than usual.

    It’s not fucking rocket science WINZ (and here I’m talking about senior managers and the decision makers in Wellington). Start treating your clients as human beings, put systems in place that reduce stress and enable dignity, and see an improvement in your relationship with the wider world.

  11. 11

    Love the way Mark Mitchell ‘bribed’ his way into the National Party. Just takes about $10k to a slime ball for ‘blog services’ – what a bargain. Not sure how the more deserving Nat members feel about that, who were undermined in the process. No surprises there that Mark was behind that stupid bill. Obviously can’t wait to start a religious war against anyone not on the 1% hard right of center and mentally ill to boot. My God after cleaning up Security in this country how about Social Welfare. The next bill might be concentration camps for Beneficiaries – he’s such a wizard for policy and democracy for the Nats.

  13. 13

    So the plan is to stop all our “Muslim Terrorists” from going overseas ….. John Key just hasn’t thought this through, if you stop them from going overseas (and they really exist) where does he think they are going to do their terror … in cafes in Ponsonby of course, and it will be John Key’s fault

  14. 14

    It’s true that it’s very difficult to stop lone nutters, but this case differs from an Aromoana case in that it’s clearly linked to a political beef with Western involvement in the Middle East. His demands included:

    1. An ISIL flag.

    2. To speak to the Prime Minister.

    Note that in September ISIL called for lone wolf attacks in Australia, so it’s not something occuring in a vacuum. Similarly, there have been numerous arrests of people who had been planning be-headings, so the demand for surveillance powers seems a sad requirement at the moment.

    1. 14.1

      It’s also “very clearly linked” to impending protracted loss of liberty for murder and rape. I’m picking loss of liberty weighs heavier on the mind than recently boarded political bandwagons.

      Just a wild guess.

        1. 14.3.1.1

          Charity is overrated. I suggest we maintain strict rules of evidence and extend them into all public decisions, then provide income assistance to destitute public relations executives and wingnuts.

    5. 14.5

      I guess you missed the bit about the australian police not yet convinced it is terrorism, but what would they know, compared to “i dont recall” John Key.

    6. 14.6

      This sad fellow sounds more like Samuel Byck than Abu Nidal.

      Amazing how your comments on behalf of demonstrably-ineffective mass surveillance aren’t matched by your [absent] calls for better mental health care, or even a review of bail risk criteria.

    7. 14.7

      There were not numerous arrests of people planning beheadings. One that was reported was because a guy had a plastic sword. There have been very few charges from an operation involving more than 800 police. One arrest was apparently based on an incorrectly translated phone call.

      There is something sad in your comment, but it’s not a requirement. It’s a Kiwi who believes anything.

  15. 15

    So Tony Abbot reckons this gunman committed an act of political violence.

    How does Tony Abbot square that away with Australia’s acts of political violence in the middle east for the last dozen years?

    1. 15.1

      “reckons”

      It’s a sliding scale I guess: from the top:

      1. Publishes in a peer-reviewed journal.
      2. Has evidence for.
      3. Believes as a result of direct personal experience.
      4. Thinks.
      5. Reckons.
      6. Spins.
      7. The shit wingnuts do.

  16. 16

    The one thing that the siege has shown us is that no matter what powers they give themselves the security apparatus is incapable of stopping random acts by nutters. It does not in any way make a case for increasing surveillance powers.

    1. 16.1

      Nope, it hasn’t even shown us that: we already knew that. In that sense it’s yet another banal illustration of just how shite “conservative” “opinion” is these days.

      The good news is that #illridewithyou

        1. 16.1.1.1

          Human values are independent of human rights, thankfully, Lao Tzu wrote that when the government is lazy and blunt, the people are kind and honest.

          Our government struggles to match ethics that were ascendant, if not ubiquitous, six thousand years ago.

Comments are closed.