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6:00 am, March 13th, 2026 - 42 comments
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Open mike is your post.
For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.
The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).
Step up to the mike …
Following on from the granting of consent for the massively power-hungry "AI factory" in Southland discussed in yesterday's Open Mike, here is a data centre just approved in Lincolnshire, UK, that will produce massive CO2 emissions.
"According to the tech justice nonprofit Foxglove, the projected emissions produced will approach those generated by every domestic flight taken in the UK."
As with the Southland Ai factory, the Lincolnshire AI data centre is justified because there are renewable energy sources available nearby:
"despite the “large absolute energy demand” of the development, the impact of emissions was not significant due to the data centre’s proximity to clean energy sources in the Humber region."
This is pure greenwashing.
There is no such thing as "spare" renewable energy. Renewable energy requires significant capital investment to produce it, and this renewable energy could and should be used to power homes or useful productive and viable businesses either now or in the future. It should NOT be used for for largely useless, unproductive and ridiculously power-hungry AI data centres.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2026/mar/12/council-approves-lincolnshire-datacentre-despite-emissions-warnings
This should be an issue in the upcoming election. It should be mandatory for all AI data centres to provide all of the energy needed to power their operations as a condition of the resource consent.
There's a few docos on YouTube about them being built (& always in poor areas) & it's the sound ((constant hum) which drives people crazy & then they can't sell their homes. There's a reason they're not being built in Remura & Riverside Drive but in faraway Invercragil.
I heard that IFL. There is a big movement against AI facilities in the USA for that reason and for the power issue. From AI:
"Data center expansion in the United States is facing significant, growing opposition, with approximately $64.4 billion in projects either blocked or delayed over the last two years due to local resistance, according to Data Centre Watch."
I think the Southland proposal is a little distant from the city.
I was watching this video yesterday, and he makes an interesting point. Running AI models locally and privately is going to become more and more popular (and necessary to protect your own private interests) because of the cost factor. And what impact is this going to have on AI Centers which are costly and require a return on investment? The comments section is full of debate whether he is right or not.
The AI model he refers to has 36 billion parameters and does not need an internet connection.
Rick Beato is also a good watch for all us muso's 🙂
to aj at 1;1;2 :
To me your comment about the the proposed Southland A1 plant not being near a city implies that its massive CO2 output is of no consequence, but added CO2 is global pollution, no matter where or how it's produced.
I was replying to I Feel Love 1.1 at 8:24am so my comment, which was not clear, was about the noise factor. I agree with you about CO2 output.
to aj at 1.1.2.1.1. Thank for clearing that up for me aj. it didn't seem to match your person.
Cost of land in Remuera and Riverside Drive would make anything (apart from housing) entirely unaffordable. Of course they are not going to pay inner city land prices!
It seems that the Invercargill/Southland proposal is well away from the city, as well.
https://southlandtribune.substack.com/p/makarewa-gets-greenlight-for-new
Mini nuclear power generators should be (or should become when they are viable) part of the datacentre's build so they are providing their own clean energy?
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/589381/renewable-energy-generation-hits-new-high-gas-at-46-year-low
How would the proposed AI factory in Southland “produce massive CO2 emissions”?
You don't seem to understand the argument Incog, which is not like you.
You are right that around 93% of existing electricity, on average, does come from renewables because most of it comes from hydro and thermal sources.
But in order to produce the mass of additional power AI data centres will consume considerable additional power generation is is going to be needed. This may come from fossil fuels or from renewables. If this power comes from fossil fuels, as this government would support (CNG especially, but also coal) this will add greatly to CO2 emissions. But it may come from renewables such as solar, wind or thermal. But in BOTH cases this will need large-scale investment to produce the energy for the AI facilities.
There is a huge opportunity cost here. NZ can use the investment opportunity to create power for homes and viable, useful and productive businesses, or instead we could use the same investment opportunity to produce power for (what I would argue are) useless and unproductive AI facilities.
Given these options it would obviously make sense for NZ to adopt the first option, while at the same time requiring that any additional energy needed for the AI centres be provided and paid for by the companies developing the AI facilities.
For CNG read LNG.
Thanks. I can follow the argument now.
Sorry…I'm a bit belligerent late at night after a few glasses of Cab Sauv.
All good, you’re always respectful and I didn’t consider your comment belligerent last night; it was clarifying, which I asked for. I hope you don’t have a hangover or jetlag still.
Where are Luxon’s 10,000 quick charging EV outlets that he promised? His lies and empty promises are catching up with him.
& after fermenting distrust in Govt & mandates how will the NZ populace cope with (possible) mandated "car free" days. National, NZ 1st & ACT are cooked.
We coped with them just fine when they were brought in back in the 70's.
What confuses me is that oil price in 2022 was way higher than today at about 122 us per barrel (especially if you account for 4 years of currency devaluation via inflation) so why are petrol prices today suddenly jumped to over $3 per liter or more so much higher than a) yesterday? and b) 2022?
petrol prices have always smelt dodgy IMO.
Luxon likes to pretend he/National is pro-environment but in policy terms, and facts on the ground, he has caved in to Shane Jones and David Seymour.
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/politics/election-2023-national-s-christopher-luxon-promises-10-000-new-ev-chargers/
To give him credit he did achieve one of these promises, he got rid of the "ute tax"
These are the things the left has to keep reminding the public of.
Israel will do to parts of Lebanon and of Iran what it has done to Gaza.
The war in Iran must primarily be analysed as an Israeli project with the USA along as a willing manipulated tool.
yup. a president simple minded enough to be manipulated by Netanyahu
It looks like he is not the only one who is manipulating Trump:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/trump-administration-allows-for-russian-oil-sales-as-energy-prices-soar/ERYUEOZRGJCENDO5KHBRVF3MHM/
A few interesting headlines from The Guardian, 22 Sept 2017:
"Trump and Netanyahu target Iran" (opposing UN nuclear deal with Iran)
"Baltic alarm over Moscow manoeuvres"
"Forests are disappearing as demand for chocolate soars"
"Can Ardern win in New Zealand?"
"It's time to tell a new story if we want to change the world" (George Monbiot)
The more things change, the more they stay the same (apart from Ardern – these would be just as valid today)
Except forests aren't disappearing today, the planet is greening massively.
This headline was very specifically addressing forest destruction as a result of intensive cocoa (i.e. chocolate) production.
Which is still happening.
https://wwf.panda.org/wwf_news/?15675941/Business-as-usual-cocoa-Is-driving-a-new-wave-of-global-forest-destruction-warns-new-WWF-report
It's is not really relevant that forest cover (of plantation monoculture pines) is increasing in NZ, when bio-diverse forests are being destroyed in Africa (and other countries).
Just listened to Shane Jones on National Radio talking about the closure of the Refinery back a few years ago – time NZ First were asked why they closed Watties . . .
Shane Jones in that interview was very Trumpian!
A shoutout to the PSA who keep key issues on the forefront.
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO2603/S00081/psa-calls-on-mps-to-sign-pledge-to-stop-cuts-to-holidays-and-pay-for-thousands-of-workers.htm
Brooke van Velden continues to spearhead the anti-worker campaign by the Coalition and particularly ACT.
At its First Reading in the House, it received full support from NZ First.
Matthew Hooten has had a spittle flecked serve at Chris Hipkins (in his role as Covid 19 Minister at the time) today in his weekly column – as he is want to do. Of course it's paywalled, but here's the start –
'Labour leader Chris Hipkins has admitted “with hindsight” that he made mistakes as Covid-19 Minister.
Yet he won’t apologise, especially to Aucklanders. Until he does, his returning as Prime Minister is unconscionable.
It’s also untrue that his “mistakes” are recognisable only in hindsight. This week’s 586-page Royal Commission report reads as an extended version of what I and others were saying in the earliest days of the first lockdown.'
As Paula Bennett was quoted as saying a few years ago: 'Settle Pettal' – obviously he is reacting to the commentary on the recently released second enquiry into the pandemic and he doesn't appear to like what he has heard and read.
Jeez Matthew, get over it.
Still provide the link, please, for those who have subscription or can bypass the paywall.
Sure – sorry about that, hope this works.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/royal-commission-report-why-chris-hipkins-must-apologise-to-aucklanders-matthew-hooton/premium/KCZU44BT3VAQZPDO6DBU4SWWK4/
I think you will find Hooten is speaking for more than a few people.
It comes down to perception.
https://theconversation.com/panic-buying-just-makes-shortages-worse-why-do-people-do-it-anyway-277964
Risk assessment is also at the base of price rises.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/thedetail/589439/uncertainty-over-the-fuel-that-drives-our-economy
This includes hikes by insurance companies.
Speaking of panic buying, I never got my head around the whole toilet paper thing during covid. I mean why would you go out and panic buy huge amounts of loo paper? If you actually ran out there's a myriad of other stuff you could use if you had to. And if it was really serious you could survive easily without it altogether as billions around the world do anyway. I remember thinking to myself at the time that toilet paper wouldn't be anywhere near the top of my list of things I would need to stock up on if it came to it. I just don't get it… anyone know the answer?
It's a control thing. When it feels like you have no control over something which is deeply frightening, a common reaction is to exercise control over the things that you can control (retail therapy). And a perception of a shortage, results in increased desirability.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/11/heres-why-people-are-panic-buying-and-stockpiling-toilet-paper.html
Even though we manufacture tp in NZ – and had zero chance of actually running out (as a country) the overseas panic buying memes spread here (thanks social media), and the sight of it disappearing off supermarket shelves and being rationed – fueled the demand.
Psychology.
Panic is giving people the shits.
Everything tRump touches dies.
https://www.ifpri.org/blog/the-iran-war-potential-food-security-impacts/
https://theoregongroup.com/commodities/nickel/strait-of-hormuz-is-also-the-chokepoint-for-sulphuric-acid-and-critical-metal-processing/
C of C trying to diminish local school food programmes.
https://www.thepost.co.nz/nz-news/360964418/funded-fail-further-cuts-coming-some-school-lunches
Found my favorite new holiday, reporting the inundation of national,and national,s yapping poodles for spreading false information, not sure it'll achieve anything but it's fun
After the performative nonsense from the departing Judith Collins, the planes she sent return with no-one on them.
What a waste.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/world-news/360944966/iran-strikes-us-and-israel-launch-operation