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6:00 am, August 6th, 2026 - 83 comments
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Open mike is your post.
For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.
The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).
Step up to the mike …
https://www.stuff.co.nz/money/361013406/four-ten-kiwis-say-theyre-falling-behind-we-asked-our-politicians-what-theyre-going-do-about-it
Politicians giving their views, with interactive bits attached, tops winning as I post, new ,interesting, sold well.
Thanks bwaghorn
Ill have to address some of those Finance Ministers views when I have more time
Meanwhile, here is a related link that gives a little more insight into how bad things are out there
https://www.stuff.co.nz/money/361012252/four-ten-kiwis-feel-worse-financially-they-did-year-ago
Left/right clusterfuck hits the big-time: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/russell-harrison-ministry-of-justice-under-review-boss-apologises-over-utterly-unacceptable-saga/ABMFSVTL4JEDXHJQOM46IDHFUU/
Goldsmith avoids explaining why: justice system apparently couldn't be bothered prosecuting those charges for 5 whole years, due to being supervised by this govt & the prior govt. Perpetuate a shambles forever is the best way to do normalcy.
Your Left-Right hemisphere clusterfuck hits the big-time, again.
Apparently, it started with “misguided advice” followed by “a terrible series of mistakes”. You were hallucinating when you ascribed a motive and twisted this into some kind of Left-Right issue – only in your confused mind.
Perpetuating your mediocre melodrama forever is not the best way to do comments on this site.
If you gut and underfund any Department or Ministry for long enough and deep enough, you run out of managers to actually make decisions that would have helped here. MOJ have been running on fumes outside legal aid changes and a few new court upgrades.
The public service has zero constraint cutting subcontractor and casually employed people off without much notice, so they don't have much of a leg to stand on … other than to blame the courts that they actually fund and run.
Nevertheless it all looks late and performative from Goldsmith.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/361016012/there-huge-appetite-new-limits-standing-parliament-says-shane-jones-he-promises-new-nz-first-policy
Nzf wants to limit who can be an mp. I'd go for mandatory retirement at the next election of an mp over 65, get out of the way you've had your turn .
any society that hates its elders is doomed.
Elders and betters.
Bill Plotkin talks about this:
"Soul-initiated adults and true elders are the seeds that, in the fullness of time, produce a living, growing culture. The intermingling visionary projects of these adults and elders become the mature forests of such a culture. The self-organizing more-than-human world of a particular watershed, along with the sacred stories that grow out of that place, compose its soil. Evolution-driving Mystery (Love) is its rain and sunshine."
https://billplotkin738835.substack.com/
Disagree with premise old is visionary: wise elders got to be wise by a lifetime of doing and changing the world around them as younger visionaries. Unless you're a contemplative monk, no amount of bum-sitting makes you a visionary. It just makes you opinionated.
The wise elder bit is because you finally can/have to sit, and so consolidate your experience.
Any society that doesn't recognise that elders must step back, while enabling, advising and guiding younger members to perform in wise, mature positions of responsibility extending to the future, is doomed! I think that the lack of this rule is notable in many countries and conurbations in the world.
The proof is in how they look after and take care of the elderly.
I agree, and we are not that good at it.
Wanting to stop older people from taking part in democracy is a reflection of that I think.
Well, to be fair, the party hasn't released any policy on this (nor are they likely to – Winston is far too wily); it's simply a headline-catching statement from Jones.
So, they are highly unlikely to campaign on restricting the eligibility to stand as an MP.
Although, they have already announced a campaign on restricting voting to NZ citizens.
https://www.nzfirst.nz/nz_first_to_campaign_on_citizens_only_voting
As to the rest of your proposal. Pure ageism.
Driven, it appears, by a visceral dislike of Peters.
I don't like him either; but address his policy and statements, rather than his age, gender, or race.
Don't come the top-down authoritarian telling us how we are must 'follow' form to express honest opinion, based on observation, and sum up in a negative cliche.
Our past and old people have lead us to this present disastrous mess. Now we must look hard, stand back and note our direction – it is important that we are sharp with those who continue the same road just because they are suited or sorted.
Don't prate about the old and how we should automatically venerate them, many tried to find better ways, many died supposedly to that end, but couldn't break the serpentine leadership control. We must see the pattern that seems to morph in human affairs again and again, to our detriment. We have to think harder, smarter and with some humility.
I'm being generous, and assuming that this response was intended to be to another comment.
Because, it has absolutely nothing to do with what I said, in the comment you are replying to.
For example, I said absolutely nothing about 'venerating the old' – even by implication.
Does the same apply to voters?
After all, the 65+ group are one of the most likely to vote of all age groupings.
And political policies are designed not to upset the golden oldies apple cart (mess with super at your peril).
Removing them as a voting bloc, would radically change the political policy environment in NZ.
NB: I'm not advocating this, just trying to point out how exclusionary your initial proposal was.
You really do have to marvel at the narrative running despite evidetclear to all.
The rally cry of this regime, repeated by tories and other unthinking individuals that lack compassion was debt, debt, debt.
So. . the unqualified, inexperienced Minister of Finance, shrunk the economy both deliberately and inadvertantly. Give tax breaks and relief to the landlord class, lowering tax income and locking money out of the economy.
Then, to balance the books, deny needed wage increases by pulling the rug from under Pay Equity negotiations. Further lowering tax in the form of HST and PAYE
When we look back at this era, I suggest it is refered to as Williside
Bernard Hickey on Morning Report this morning lays it all out in gory detail, the government doesn't understand why it's not working, meanwhile a whole generation is f%*ked and pensioners are taking what jobs there are.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2019046480/bernard-hickey-discusses-latest-unemployment-figures
Some of Hickey's points:
He says too, No government has survived an election with both falling house prices and falling real wages.
Willicide?
Sounds like impotence…
Nah, it’s a condition in which one uses a lot of hands-off friction and exhalant warm air […] to make it [the economy] grow and stay firm (aka stable) but it [the economy] keeps shrinking and the little swimmers flee overseas [to Oz].
As the world continues to burn 100 million barrels of oil a day, and forest fires burn around the world, George Monbiot details the shift in attitude of climate change deniers.
"In a column in the Daily Telegraph last week, originally titled “Britain can’t stop climate change. Scrap net zero and embrace Mediterranean life”, he [Allister Heath] argued that “climate change is real” but “the war against global warming has been lost”….This is a classic progression among those who seek to prevent a shift away from fossil fuels: first deny the problem, as the Daily and Sunday Telegraph have done for many years, then accept the problem but claim it’s now too late to act."
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/aug/05/murderous-heat-climate-disaster-mediterranean-life-radical-right
It seems that for the Spanish, the French, the English etc. it is too late.
So they should stop trying? That is the corollary of the "it's too late" narrative.
That seems to be their attitude Bella. It's similar to the attitude of the government here, given their continuation with the LNG import terminal project.
Don't stop trying, even though your own situation is hopeless; try on behalf of others not in the same situation as you; your own country may be screwed but stopping burning fossil fuel might help others elsewhere – might.
those countries aren't screwed, as in hopeless and it's too late. The regenerative capacity of the land remains. And of human society too imo, although we are hard up against it atm.
Would you also argue that a country that's suffered decades of drought and starvation is not hopeless? It may be that rains will return and forest may regrow, but for the generations that have suffered and died because of the conditions, it was hopeless.
Why do you think human society has a regenerative capacity that we might rely upon? What makes you say that? When you weigh-up human existence to date, do you feel that capacity is something to feel encouraged by, rather than something to despair over?
Of course. Are you talking about feelings of hopelessness, rather than whether a situation is irredeemable?
Feeling despair is normal. Acting as if the situation can never be remedies is a political choice.
I wouldn't regard their situation as hopeless.
There are possibilities for reduction of climate impact, societal changes to reduce demand on fossil fuels, and mitigation of the existing and forecast climate change (for example). None are impossible. And all can make a difference for the countries concerned, as well as the rest of the world.
Throwing up your hands and claiming that 'it's too late' is not a helpful response. It encourages people to believe that all of the above are impossible – and that there is no point in even trying – better to go out in a blaze of resource-hogging glory.
Already most people have realised that, for what they were expecting earlier, avoidance of harm from climate change, it's too late.
Now, most realise that there will be loss. That doesn't mean, "all is lost" but it does mean there's sense in reframing possible futures. That doesn't mean, as you've said, that "…there is no point in even trying – better to go out in a blaze of resource-hogging glory."
Expectations can and must change.
However, you were responding to an initial comment about the 'rationalization' of climate change deniers (moving from there is no problem, to it's too late to do anything).
In that context, your comment:
fits right into that narrative.
If your intention was not to support this worldview, then you might have chosen your words better.
it's never too late.
Nauru? Haiti?
what about those places?
Too late – what's left?
https://www.worldometers.info/oil/
A NZ$34 billion data center has just been cancelled in North Carolina because of "local resistance". This follows the cancellation of a similar project in Virginia the day before. Massive power requirements continue to be a major issue.
"The withdrawal marks the second high-profile data center in as many days to fall to local resistance, after Prince William County, Virginia, rejected a 1,940-acre hub. Communities that once competed for hyperscale investment are increasingly pumping the brakes over noise, water use and strain on the grid,…"
https://theamericandeveloper.com/news/edgecombe-data-center-canceled/
In Texas, the Governor has hit pause on all new data centres.
https://www.utilitydive.com/news/texas-hits-pause-data-center-interconnections/827046/
Thanks Bella…interesting.
I note Texas governor Abbott says “The scale of Texas data center development “could endanger the reliability and stability of the Texas electric grid,””
Meanwhile the CoC is proposing to build a $2.7 billion LNG import terminal in order to power data centres in NZ.
(Imported LNG has a greater carbon footprint than coal)
The COC's latest plan will be another c*ck up IMHO, just like the Ferries ?
So after 3 years of dithering around and making excuses the Commerce Commission finally plucks up the courage to take Foodstuffs to court for anti-competative practices. Coming a day after record unemployment figures and a very bad week for the government and just 3 months before the election.
Coincidence?
I know what I think.
Only in NZ this could happen Goldie MP is Minister of Justice, he has no legal qualifications, he has a M.A. (History) probably English History, I doubt he know's an ounce of NZ History or Maaori History and he can't even win his Electorate Seat in Right Wing Epsom, Auckland. Minister of Finance has a Degree in English Literature and the Health Minister is an ex Bank Teller. No wounder NZ is in the SH*T ???
Minister of Health Simeon Brown holds degrees from Auckland Uni, conjoint Bachelor of Laws (LLB) and Bachelor of Commerce (BCom) degrees. Michael Cullen had a history degree as Minister of Finance, Bill English an arts degree in English for the same job.
The questions really are these. What relevant skill sets does the Minister have? What is their ability to hear and take advice? What is their political/social philosophy? What skills, knowledge and humanity are needed for the Ministerial role? To whom are they beholden?
Thanks for the reply Mac1 you just reconfirmed my statement.
While there is a long-standing tradition for the Attorney General to be a lawyer, there is no comparable understanding for the Minister of Justice. Indeed the previous Minister, Ginny Andersen, had no legal qualifications (BA in political science and Maori), although she had worked for the police as a policy-unit advisor.
But, it is by no means uncommon for finance ministers to not have economic credentials or for health ministers to not have health credentials.
Under Ardern, Robertson (BA in politics) was Finance minister, and Hipkins (BA in politics and criminology) was the Health minister.
I'm not sure who you are referring to as a bank teller? Is this hyperbole?
However, your outrage over a previous career as a bank teller, sits oddly from a left perspective. Is your position that only a university qualification fits someone for cabinet rank? Working class need not apply?
Belladonna it's not a right or left issue, the incompetence and the lack of suitability and ability, occurs from both the left and right, the levels of incompetence in Government is mind boggling.
Dear me, are you now arguing that Grant Robertson was manifestly incompetent, and unsuitable for the position of Finance Minister – because he didn't have a degree in Economics, or a background in Finance?
If not, can you then give examples from the Left, of "incompetence and lack of suitability and ability" – since you are claiming that it's not a right/left issue.
Personally, I think that institutional capture is a much greater risk.
If you want to argue that the current lot are incompetent (based on current performance) – then have at it. But it has nothing to do with education, qualifications or background.
IIRC, the most recent Minister of Finance who had any level of financial qualification was Muldoon (Accountant). I don't think that that went particularly well for the economy.
Christopher Luxon has promised a referendum on MMP if he's re-elected, because he doesn't want to have to work with "numpties" who hold a different view from the National Party.
In troubled times, it's no surprise when closet authoritarians start outing themselves. This is all of a piece with the government's decision that anybody who hasn't enrolled by 2 weeks before election day doesn't deserve the right to vote – despite there being no public good justification for the policy – not even a very minor public good such as faster vote counting. People are disqualified from voting because of their presumed numptyism and no other reason. Similarly, Shane Jones offers up his loquacious orotundities concerning additional restrictions on who can become an MP. Again, perceived numptyism is the enemy.
Numptyism in this case simply means the 'other', the 'not National', the 'not us'. This is dangerous and stupid.
NZF +20% at the November General Election, could overtake National IMHO.
What leads you to that belief?
It would nearly double the current polling for NZF – and it seems an unlikely shift for what is, largely, a niche party.
Do you actually think that Peters' performative rants make him first choice with 1/5 of the population?
It seems unlikely to me.
With just about everybody riding their high-horse over Peters at the moment, it would be fair to assume some may no-longer want to publicly announce their support. Nevertheless, 20% does seem rather ambitious
The most recent poll (measuring support in the last week of July) has NZF at 8.5%
Setting this aside (I'm finding the Roy Morgan polls to be outliers from the rest of the polling data) – the one before that (mid July, from Talbot Mills) is 12%.
None of these, of course, measure the impact of the last week.
I'd be inclined to say that low teens would be the highest level of support that NZF is likely to attract.
NZF polling in the low teens Bella? You must be very positive about them and very negative about the ability of Kiwis to think incisively. Even sheep know to run away from a Big Bad Wolf with false teeth (he lies in them)!
Have a look at the current polling.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2026_New_Zealand_general_election
Setting aside the RM polls (which I disbelieve for a range of reasons – although they are, at least consistent in their dislike of Labour and preference for TOP and Greens) – NZF have been around a 12% average over the last 3 months. It doesn't seem too great a stretch for them to gain an extra percentage point.
Your point about sheep running away from NZF – doesn't seem to be borne out by polling reality. Their popularity has been increasing, steadily, over the last year. To the point where they are the 3rd most popular party (overtaking the Greens).
I don't think that they'll reach the dizzying heights of 20%, as predicted (with no evidence) by Ngungukai. But I don't see any sign that their support is going to collapse, either. My prediction is that they'll settle into the low teens, with a substantial increase in representation in Parliament. A significant increase on their 2023 result of 6% – overtaking both ACT and the Greens.
What evidence do you have that would challenge this? Apart from wishful thinking….
Please note, I'd be delighted to be wrong about Peters and NZF – but I don't think that the polling trends are going to make me happy.
Reminder of what happened with the last "referendum distraction" …
Four-year parliamentary term legislation to be introduced, would go to referendum | RNZ
And then nothing happened.
This won't happen either. Still, he gets a day off from the real questions and therefore staves off the caucus coup for one more day. So that's good (for National's opponents).
Oooh, the latest internal polling data for National must have been cruel, with OP and NZF taking big bites, and ACT sucking off corporates and their dough.
National is stuck in an abusive ménage a trois, and wants out, as long as it gets everything in the divorce.
Cruel comment, tWig and I love it!
Given that (some?) company men and ‘professional’ executives appear to believe, perhaps naively, that their learned skills and behaviours (aka expertise) can (and must?) seamlessly transfer to a stint/career in politics, I think this article is quite interesting.
https://theconversation.com/the-idea-of-the-company-man-was-forged-decades-ago-its-problems-still-haunt-leaders-today-288731
This determined the environment that produced “professional” executives from the 1980s onwards.
I think that this very much applies to (NZ) politics as well and why this turns on certain people and why it’s such a turn-off for many others. The ‘company men’ and their sycophants want to keep status quo and continue their BAU because that’s ‘their world’. Rather than applying this lens to the usual suspects in NZ politics, I wonder where the TOP professionals fit into this.
How many fact-free claims can you make in a paragraph?
In 2022 the majority of our MPs were female, and in the 2023 election it tilted slightly the other way again.
For the last 30 years ie since 1996, we have had a female Prime Minister for 48.7% of the time.
NZ women hold over 50% of public sector leadership positions and 43.8% of public board positions.
That accounts for about one third of all organisations public or private who employ over 10 people or more.
NZ capitalism is ever harsher since 1987, but GINI coefficient inequality flatlined after Working For Families and other supplements.
With all that representative equality, it's only since 2023 with a female Minister of Finance that GINI coefficient inequality got worse again.
I can make more than you did count. But thanks for leaning in and for missing the context as well as the point, of the linked article, and of my comment/paragraph.
Your link is just trite horseshit and you should know better.
A-and the winner is…!? Can you tone down the attacks – I count on sense from you two and we must continue a higher profile than we put up with from our scrabble-prone pollies.
I want to stay on the high ground while their sh.t floods in from Wellington. Strangely enough there is a plague of crawling insects in the Wellington region as well. The report on the insects and authority's non-action to correct them is uncomfortably close to how we find ourselves in attempting real-life control of politicians and their government arm.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/environment/577528/invasive-portuguese-millipede-spreads-beyond-wellington.Nov.2/25
"Lux Flakes" wants a Referendum on MMP, good luck with that with 30-40% of the voting public voting for Minor Parties – He really isn't up with the play, not the brightest light bulb in town.
Yeah, I did a mental eye-roll listening to the newsreader announcing that. He's in panic mode. Any evidence of disapproval of MMP in recent years? Nope.
This is another Lux cock up. He hasn't read the room and has probably just lost the election.
His comments, where he says that he only wants National people around the cabinet table, clearly presage a return to FPP. That won't fly.
"he only wants National people around the cabinet table"
Breathtakingly simplistic and will appeal to those breathtakingly simple Nats who form the calcified backbone of the National Party.
Agree Lux Flakes has just lost the Election. I agree with him that ACT and David Seyman are just a bunch of Numpties, but I don't think Winston and NZF are going to take those comments lying down. NZF have got some very good people despite the antics of Winston and his 2IC. get out the Popcorn folks, this is going to be fun from now on in to the 2026 General Election.
" NZF have got some very good people despite the antics of Winston …"
You WHAT???
Ngungukai also thinks that NZF are going to hit 20%
Questionable contact with reality.
NZF?
I reckon, 11, unless they collapse altogether 🙂
The Matua is sounding more like the Mutterer.
Winston's little fisties ain't frightening no clouds.
The rest of the leperous crew will mill and mew when he's gone.
This article is from the Guardian in 2025. The authors now have a new book published on the same topic. The rise of the authoritarian Right allied with conservative religion and end times, survivalism and the Rapture.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2025/apr/13/end-times-fascism-far-right-trump-musk
Mix in a smidgeon of anti-science and a dose of sovereign citizenry, throw in a pinch of mysogyny, a sprinkling of racism, a shake of ageism. Heat with wildfires and global warming, and what have you got?
If nothing else, a good reason to be involved in politics and voting. A good reason to safeguard our children's and young people's education. A good reason to be inclusive, to eschew nationalism, patriotism and blind subservience, to be human, compassionate, wise. Oh, and some virtue-signalling, just to let the world know what is virtuous and wise and to speak out against this once again rising ideology of the Right.
https://www.theguardian.com/guardian-live-events/2026/jun/03/naomi-klein-and-astra-taylor-how-to-resist-end-times-fascism
An ongoing saga of guerilla warfare: info pirates vs control freak privateers. [deleted]
My dreadlocked tech enabler was just here reconfiguring my printer that had decided it didn't feel like scanning today, and he told me what the site is good for.
[I’ve deleted the link, to prevent others falling in a possible trap of accessing a site that most likely isn’t legal in NZ. I doubt that you’ve tried it yourself, so it begs the question why you’d want to expose TS readers to this, especially when there are good proven alternatives already in use here!?
You’ve also omitted what the site is good for, according to the explanation given to you by your ‘dreadlocked tech enabler’. Are we supposed to read your mind on this too?
I’ve added another 2 weeks to your current ban – Incognito]
Mod note
Agree Lux Flakes has just lost the Election. I agree with him that ACT and David Seyman are just a bunch of Numpties, but I don't think Winston and NZF are going to take those comments lying down. NZF have got some very good people despite the antics of Winston and his 2IC. get out the Popcorn folks, this is going to be fun from now on in to the 2026 General Election.
"Luxon told Newstalk ZB he wanted more National party Cabinet ministers, and not "some yahoo or numpty from some other party" at the table. He has denied he was referring to his existing partners."
Then who was he talking about?
Who, who, whoooo? (Owls do cry).
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/politics/906485/peter-dunne-believes-luxon-s-frustration-with-nz-first-act-behind-mmp-referendum-call
An attempt to denigrate the new kids on the block without saying their name?
I betcha Luxon went into the Coalition thinking "I can handle this ol' Winnie. Can't be that hard, that girlie Ardern did it no probs, and I've been a CEO". Even though Key and others probably cautioned him.
I've said before that Ardern's management of Peters, with nary a ruffle on the pond surface, was the most impressive example of her leadership chops.
Luxon’s dealing with Peters and being PM give more support to the Peter Principle (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle). ¿When is he going to unleash his potential?
He's a back-biter, Peters, isn't he.
Snake-in-the-grass also.
Toxic.