Out with the old – in with the old

Written By: Anthony R0bins - Date published: - 110 comments
Categories: bill english, john key, leadership, national - Tags: ,

So today Key’s 8 long years draw to a close. More than enough has been written on his legacy of nothing, I’m not going to add to it. Bye John, out with the old.

And in with the old. Shortly the Nats will anoint the chosen one, Bill English. A pre-failed leader. Mr 21%. The greedy double dipper. The boring, conservative choice for a boring conservative party.

Given the tail-wind from Key it’s likely that Bill will do better this time than last. Time will tell whether he does well enough to get the Nats another term. For the sake of the country, particularly the poor and vulnerable, the environment, and the future, I certainly hope not.

Time for a change. Time for a government that is realistic about the challenges that we face, that can plan for a future beyond the three year electoral cycle, and that has the interests of all New Zealanders at heart. Gentle reader, if you are not already working for the leftie / liberal / progressive party of your choice – why not? The time to start is now, or we will get more of the same old same old.

110 comments on “Out with the old – in with the old”

Comment numbers have changed to permanent references. Older quoted numbers may no longer identify the same comment.

  1. 1

    Gordon Campbell on the new team:

    Bling and Pulla”

    Things will be just the same, but really, really different! Its so exciting! Bill English is from the South and I’m from the North! How great a team is that? And can I tell you again how awesomely talented all my colleagues are? Yikes. I have a feeling we’re going to get very tired of the chirpy chops ebullience of our new deputy Prime Minister in a very short period of time. Grumpy, less charitable thoughts do come to mind. As in… is someone, anyone on the new team going to ensure that Nick Smith and Murray McCully are shot at dawn this week, and replaced by people even more awesome than they are?

    Now that the charade of a contest for the National Party leadership is over – the pre-arranged succession had about as much drama as the upcoming transition from Queen Elizabeth to Prince Charles – attention will shift once again this week to the minor placings.

    1. 1.1

      Goff, Shearer, Cunliffe, now all happy, English gets a second chance at winning an election after losing one. huh. No.

  2. 2

    I’ve read a lot of commentary on Key’s style over substance, legacy of nothing.
    What about his oversight of NZ spy agencies and the increase of mass surveillance…
    Isn’t that going to be historically remarkable?

    1. 2.1

      It’s a variation on 2 track politics: a lot of public superficial style; behind the scenes a whittling away of democratic processes, the rise in the surveillance state, and the remnants of the social security state.

    2. 2.2

      By remarkable do you mean it was bad under his leadership, then when the fire got hot, he ran away and gave it to Finlayson, and under Finlayson some light has been shone on it?

      Also interesting to observe the big brave journos all suddenly saying he has achieved bugger all and been bland and , and , and AFTER he resigned.

      Sir John Key in new Years Honours. He lies that it doesn’t matter to him.

      1. 2.2.1

        ”Also interesting to observe the big brave journos all suddenly saying he has achieved bugger all and been bland and , and , and AFTER he resigned.”

        yes its had me shaking my head gutless toads,

  3. 3

    Apparently there’s one significant difference between the old and the old: the right to choose abortion.

    …and this…

    He voted against the legalisation of same sex marriage. He voted against civil unions. He voted against prostitution law reform. He voted for a 2005 bill that sought to clarify that marriage should only be between men and women.

      1. 3.1.1

        If he is concerned about morality how come his policies aren’t morally fair or fiscally right English has been kicking the poor in the guts for 8 years while selling our assets and now I hear him talking about social services that he gutted. And still holding fast to a tax cut bribe of 20 bucks a week wow Bill you will have to do better than that mate if you want to win the next election.

        1. 3.1.1.1

          It’s alright Sabine, he’s probably only going to go for the Protestants, atheists, muslims hindus, women, the poor and other minority groups!

        2. 3.1.1.2

          Its okay Michelle, he more than likely goes to confession each week and will be given absolution of his sins otherwise he won’t be able to take the sacrament at Mass each Sunday. Like all faithful Catholics with a clear conscience its easy for him the following week to work on his punishing policies on the vulnerable as he knows he is forever going to be forgiven for implementing them. Always has been that way with the church, even mortal sins disclosed in the confessional are sacred and private so sure as hell all his venal sins he commits won’t keep him awake at night.

        3. 3.1.1.3

          Why is selling assets somehow immoral? I don’t believe I’ve seen anything in the Bible stating ‘Thou shalt not sell stakes in commercial enterprises owned by the State’.

            1. 3.1.1.3.1.1

              Not me. I believe it was michelle who was trying to argue that English should have some sort of moral dilemma with selling assets as a result of his religious beliefs.

              1. 3.1.1.3.1.1.1

                Is that what she said, Gosman? No: you missed out the kicking the poor in the guts part, and some other things.

                Selectively quoting is lying, Gosman. Come to think of it, I don’t believe I’ve ever seen you author an honest comment. You should have your amygdala checked.

                1. 3.1.1.3.1.1.1.1

                  michelle was discussing religious morality and brought up selling assets. I’m pretty sure that means michelle equates selling assets with immorality from a religious perspective.

                  1. 3.1.1.3.1.1.1.1.1

                    You can do a lot better than that. Are you deliberately misrepresenting Michelle’s illustrative comparison, or isn’t English comprehension your strong point?

                  2. 3.1.1.3.1.1.1.1.2

                    She also was discussing the gutting of social services and hurting the vulnerable Gosman. Double Dipper gives religion a bad name. Selling assets is no way to produce, grow and make money – it is selling off assets which the taxpayer has paid for and for which we cannot ever get back again. It is a lazy method for politicians with no vision to raise quick cash. This country is a wasteland now with low income workers, out of control house prices and foreign owned assets.

                    1. 3.1.1.3.1.1.1.1.2.1

                      Hi Kate

                      “it is selling off assets which the taxpayer has paid for and for which we cannot ever get back again.”

                      Actually the assets were paid for with debt, the partial sale helped reduce that debt. Also there is no reason why a future government cannot re-nationalise those assets by share purchase. Given that dividends to the government are up with the lower shareholding, that would seem to be a little silly, however.

                      “This country is a wasteland now with low income workers, out of control house prices and foreign owned assets.”

                      No. This is a terrific country to live in. We have low inflation and interest rates, affordable housing, and record levels of employment. Our country is receiving numerous accolades for our economy and overall way of life…here’s yet another recent example:
                      https://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/human-freedom-index-files/human-freedom-index-2016.pdf

                      The abject negativity of your post is sad, but ultimately it is entirely inaccurate. NZ has growing exports, booming tourism, and good news stories in a host of other sectors.

                    2. 3.1.1.3.1.1.1.1.2.2

                      Sorry Wellf, you might have sold the image of a reasonable optomist right up until you claimed that housing was affordable. Even the National Party are admitting that aint the case any more.

                      Care to try again?

                    3. 3.1.1.3.1.1.1.1.2.3

                      wellfedweta.

                      “the assets were paid for with debt, the partial sale helped reduce that debt.”

                      No it didn’t. Who or what gave you that crazy idea?

                      <a href="http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/asset-sales-cash-used-as-govt-slush-fund–peters-2016060713

                      <a href="http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/285835/have-asset-sale-funds-gone-where-promised

                      <a href="http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10911911

                      <a href="http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1403/S00506/new-ufb-spend-up-for-asset-sales-slush-fund.htm

                    4. 3.1.1.3.1.1.1.1.2.4

                      What nonsense. If the State wants to get the assets back it has a multitude of ways to achieve this. One would be to buy them. another is to steal them.

          2. 3.1.1.3.2

            Telling porkies is that immoral Gosman what about claiming monies you are not entitled to and selling our state homes when so many people are homeless.

            1. 3.1.1.3.2.1

              If a State house is sold to housing charity how does that impact the homeless? I presume the housing charity also helps the homeless or those in housing need so overall the net social effect is neither positive nor negative.

              1. 3.1.1.3.2.1.1

                “If a State house is sold to housing charity how does that impact the homeless?”

                Funny that the charities don’t want a bar of it Gosman….

                http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/87341873/sale-of-state-houses-regrettable–salvation-army

                With only one major ‘charity’ getting involved…http://www.accessibleproperties.co.nz/about/

                which qualifies as a ‘charity’ only by the loosest of definitions.

                But don’t panic Gosman….your Buddies in the House are off to Aus, seeking willing buyers…http://www.powerhousingaustralia.com.au/

                a member of the multinational charity….http://internationalhousingpartnership.com/

              2. 3.1.1.3.2.1.2

                Correct. It’s the same as when private investors purchase state houses and enter long term agreements with housing NZ. In my view there is no need for the government to own a single house. Not one. Capital would be freed up to, repay debt, for example.

                1. 3.1.1.3.2.1.2.1

                  Yea cause the market has proven to be real effective at providing social housing thus far. Shit the private market has done a shit job on housing all round.

                  That is of course what happens when you have a market where the supply can never meet demand and demand is inflated by it being a tax haven for those who set up their affairs correctly.

                  No invisable hand driving that market to the magic equalibrium. Has all the basis in reality of Blinglishes fairy god father.

                  1. 3.1.1.3.2.1.2.1.1

                    Actually the private market does an excellent job at providing ‘social’ housing. It gives the government the flexibility to access housing where and when there is need, rather than be left holding housing stock in places or in configurations it no longer requires.

                2. 3.1.1.3.2.1.2.2

                  There is no such thing as society, eh?
                  No point debating with folk like you. You are devout followers of the Randian cult and impervious to reason.

        4. 3.1.1.4

          That $20 is averaged out over everybody. So the rich will get much more than that amount and the poor will get a lot less. Just like last time

    2. 3.2

      I heard on the wireless he is going to support same sex marriage now… I wonder how his church feels about that, is he allowed to go against the church in order to push his own political agenda without any backlash? Is his local congregation and priest so stupidly star struck that their religious morals are suddenly flexible?

      Or is the new outgoing PM so simple minded he allows his own religious brainwashing to dictate political decisions that impact every citizen of NZ.

      That pisses me off, if you are going to call yourself a catholic, walk the talk or rot in hell. Cause the catholics are happy to use satan as a scape goat, so I’ll call em out on the same.

      Maybe Satan made Bill change his mind, quick off to confession and all is forgiven. FFS Dumb and dumber. Bye bye Bill you are a gone burger mark my words, tat taaa

      https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/44/03/3b/44033bc3336871f278e3cfce5d1e08d4.jpg

      1. 3.2.1

        Not quite. After 2 months of backroom training he is already in Key mode. He says if the vote were today (which it isnt) he would vote for same sex marriage. No one can say his is wrong but nor will we ever know. So he gets to seem socially liberal when he is really socially conservative. See the bait and switch that 2 months training does?

        1. 3.2.1.1

          I think a better way to put this is that he wouldn’t vote to overturn marriage equality, which is good, but like, the very least you can do.

          English will absolutely vote against progressive social policy if any future conscience votes around issues like say, trans rights, or queer homelessness, come up in Parliament.

  4. 4

    English is to Key what Hillary was to Obama.

    Slightly darker, more project-focussed, more about the substance than the rhetoric, more skilled in operating all parts of the machine.

    The left are very, very lucky that Key’s resignation now gives them a chance.

    I sincerely hope that the left gives all voters something really clear and strong and proud to vote for. And that they win.

    1. 4.1

      Key was a lazy distraction in a time when the NZ economy always does well, when the world economy does not, its got nothing to do with managing, the wealth of the world needs a place that works while it chokes and splurters. Free trade lets the world take over the NZ economy, its a big white flag surrender, Nz wont fail as its so rorted that in bad times the wealth centers lean off NZ. Fear good times in the Northern hemisphere, unlikelt though, Climate Change means shit on shit.

        1. 4.1.1.1

          Risk and facts. When unemployment rises in UK,US,EU, kiwis start for home. Like i said when the economy does worse overseas its should be obvious to those with knowledge about kiwi oe that there is a boost to the nz economy.

          Second. Investors like the rigged nz economy exposed without tarriffs etc, low trade borders coupled with the higher risk bonus interest rates, venture here with a lower cost from border restraints and invest with a higher rate of return.
          Which comes out of nz living better, for obvious reasons. Swiss protectionism exemplifies how to do it properly, as does swedish welfare state shows how a govt does that successfully.

          But when you have an elite who dont do govt, let markets function hands off e wheel, its no wonder the once higherest living standard decades ago is nolonger.

          You see you need both your head in the ecomonic decisiins NZ has and is making, and imagination that its more than leaving imagination to markets.

          Good govt beats markets everytime.

  5. 5

    John Key started with SCF and ended with TPP, he noted off the bat the s.Auckland crisis and even laid claim to kiwi gfc refugees return in stadium size quanta, yet remarkable did nothing about housing and rivers. Sure he claimed the Green Labour insulation scheme, even the digital fast broadband was arguably signed off for…

    So what did Key actually do? Well dotcom got in with million dollar migrants who cant speak English, tourism rises yet no new infrastructure, well okay, the dual carriageway that should have been built fifty years ago. Now we find free trade is verticalizing industry, and dereg key lets them pollute rivers, force timber prices high, and then shock horrror with Trumps victory where mainly white rural males agree with that competing with low wages is bad and makes America lousy… …what does Key media do! declare how farmers cant find workers coz they are to lazy, wtf, the wages are artifically lowered by cheap foriegn labour!

    So what has Key done, the waikato bypass and broadband, that govts should have and would have. Its what Key hasn’t done, infrastructure, building second roads as eaethquake resilience, buulding tourism support, stoping shitty rivers…

    Key, supported from the begunning by an insipid and banal media, glowing endorsements for his leadership. Thats his only real success. I did not vote for him, not my PM, good riddens.

        1. 5.1.1.1

          The National Infrastructure Unit

          The National Infrastructure Unit was established in 2009 to deliver the government’s objectives relating to infrastructure. The Unit is based within Treasury, and its responsibilities include:

          Formulating, and monitoring progress on, a 20-year National Infrastructure Plan (NIP);
          Establishing robust and reliable cross-government frameworks for infrastructure project appraisal and capital asset management, and monitoring the implementation and use of those frameworks

          Have a read of some of the reports, after decades of under investment NZ finally has a decent plan and road map in place that’s going to help NZ grow and develop over the next few decades,

          People will thank Key in years to come.

          1. 5.1.1.1.1

            You are right about a road map. I think you will find if anyone can take “credit” for it over the years it will be Mr Joyce…. John key’s Karl Rove.

              1. 5.1.1.1.2.1.1

                I’ll see if I can make the point clearer for you. After eight years, with all the resources of government, the fact that all they’ve got is a plan is pathetic, and if it’s anything like the “predator free by 2050” “plan” it will be worthless too.

          3. 5.1.1.1.3

            “People will thank Key in years to come.”

            Like most govt policy over the last 8 years I believe you will find it’s English and Joyce’s doing, not the departing frontguy.

              1. 5.1.1.1.3.1.1

                Key definitely championed the following:

                TPP

                Extension of the surveillance state, including to draw in ideas of economic threats – began work on that soon after he became PM – brought in his mate Fletcher, etc

                Asset sales… slow & sometimes stealthy

                Undermining democratic processes – urgency, OIA obfsucation, etc

                Supporting NZ as finance centre – attracting offshore money via lax disclosure regime

                2 track dirty politics

      2. 5.1.2

        Like TPP, it worked for Kaikora.

        Key stateshow he raised benefits… ..lol… he tax switched the poorest to remain stagnated while lower burdens on wealthier nz, then he raises family benefits effectively lower single benefitaries. Opening the gates to cheap migration forcing down wages, and housing costs up by million dollar migrates without housing infrastructure.

        yeah, infrastructure.

  7. 7

    Front page on Stuff…

    “Key Gets A Hamper”

    Stay classy Fairfax. That’s what I call cutting-edge journalism.

  9. 9

    “And in with the old. Shortly the Nats will anoint the chosen one, Bill English. A pre-failed leader. Mr 21%. The greedy double dipper. The boring, conservative choice for a boring conservative party”.

    Well if that is in fact the case, surely a Labour/Greens government is inevitable next year? I thought that would make you happy?

    1. 9.1

      Sam C – National still has its spinners in place. They’ll be as busy as little katipo, weaving their webs of deception, making purses from pigs’ ears, spinning straw into gold, big-noting Bill, putting lipstick on Paula. That’s why left-wingers aren’t claiming an inevitable win – we’ve seen these arachnids in action for years now and we know they are poisonous to democracy.

        1. 9.1.1.1

          That’s right, Sam C, there’s nothing to suggest that the National Party uses anything other than gosh-darned-honest hard work to win elections and do their righteous work for the benefit of all New Zealanders. Like you, I like to start my week with a massive dollop of delusion.

          2. 9.1.1.1.2

            Well done for casting off the ideological blinkers you’ve had on for so long but its not just hard work, oh no there’s also the pulling themselves up by the boot straps as well 🙂

            1. 9.1.1.1.2.1

              Yeah, and depth of talent in the party, plus there is no poverty in New Zealand!!! You know what my greatest disappointment is?
              Pandas.
              There are no pandas.
              John promised us pandas.
              Perhaps…yes! That’s it, John left us to go on a panda hunt!
              He’ll be back, real soon, with pandas!!

              My faith is restored.

  11. 11

    English is a climate science denier, he just won’t outrightly express it, instead talks about debate in the science etc.

    It’s manifestation of a position rooted in theology.

    Expect even less action on climate/carbon front while he holds the reins.

    1. 11.1

      Bill’s a Southland farmer*. Southland farmers drive tractors and tractors need diesel. You can’t deny a Southland farmer his diesel. I learned this from Eric Roy, who told me the facts about climate change (see above).
      *opinions may vary

    2. 11.2

      Good!

      NZ could shut everything down, cut its emissions down to zero, and a few DAYS’ worth of of China’s growth in emissions would replace all of that.

      Why should this country flog itself to death for nothing, on the altar of “climate change is the issue of our time”..??

      1. 11.2.1

        The Stupid runs deep in your reply, RRM.

        Every country can play your stupid and ultimately losing game.

        The object of collective agreements such as Kyoto and Paris is to collectively move toward emission reduction which (has been) is sabotaged by short term thinking exemplified by National party and Fed farmer’s gutting of the emissions trading scheme.

  12. 12

    “…Mr 21%…”

    He and Andy Little should have lots in common then eh?

    Two chumps who inherited defeated and broken parties at rock bottom.

    Bill English went on from there to become the best Minister of Finance in a lifetime, keeping all of Labour’s lefty state services funded throughout the GFC without having to raise taxes or bankrupt the country.

    It remains to be seen whether Angry “I can’t even win a backwater electorate seat” Little will go on to be the best at pretty much anything…

    1. 12.1

      Bill English went on from there to become the best Minister of Finance in a lifetime, keeping all of Labour’s lefty state services funded throughout the GFC without having to raise taxes or bankrupt the country.

      GFC would have been a disaster for NZ if the 5th Labour govt had taken Nat’s advice and used its surpluses to reduce taxes.

      Instead the Nat’s borrowed against NZ’s track record of debt management. In effect the Nats did nothing positive to manage the GFC fallout. Zilch.

      Nat’s = competent fiscal management? my arse.

  13. 13

    After watching Andrew Little’s interview on Q+A on Sunday with James Shaw i think they should swap leadership roles for the campaign next year.

    Shaw comes across and performs so much better in these interviews.

    Andrew even though i respect his abilities communicating in tv interviews is not one of them.

    The leadership debates will be exciting (sarc)

    1. 13.1

      Yes but then the question would be ‘What is the point of Labour?’. In fact can someone from the left tell me what the point of Labour is again given The Greens seem to be a more effective opposition party.

      1. 13.1.1

        What is the point of Act and United how many party votes did they get Gosman and yet they have managed to get policy from f.. a votes

  14. 14

    The danger for the left here is that you lot think you’ve basically won it already and fail to actually work on becoming an alternative government in waiting.

    1. 15.1

      The danger for the left is they externalise all their issues and live in an echo chamber and then are mortified when no one buys their kool aid

  16. 16

    Amongst the volumes of Christmas gatherings I drag my self to one bar at a time, a theme I get really easy agreement on is the hollowness of the promise of New Zealand:

    We put ourselves out there to the world as this spectacular collection of all the world’s known virtues; the best to women, the best to the environment, the best to indigeous peoples, the friendliest people to deal with …

    .. and all of that true on a superficial level when compared to everyone else …

    …and yet ask all the newbies and the imports, they will tell you New Zealand is a trap;
    – you are never going to be paid well
    – you are never going to be managed well
    – you will never be able to save
    – you will never be able to afford a house
    – you are hardly ever going to work for a company of any note globally
    – you will not be treated well
    – your children will go to mediocre schools
    … and if they ever get the chance they tell their professional friends not to bother coming here because of all of the above, because it’s a trap and you can never get out especially if you have children and you really try and settle here.

    We have a moral superiority complex and are in most measures economically inferior. To me, that is the most lasting John Key’s legacies.

    1. 16.1

      Ah the grass is always greener on the other side, you hang around with a pretty depressive crowd, new year resolution, find some positive friends

Comments are closed.