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6:00 am, April 27th, 2026 - 35 comments
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Open mike is your post.
For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.
The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).
Step up to the mike …
So Luxon condemns an attack on a press gala in Washington because Trump was there but has not condemned the illegal attacks by the US and Israel on Iran and Israel on Lebanon or Israel's genocide in Gaza.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/593477/prime-minister-christopher-luxon-condemns-shooting-at-gala-attended-by-donald-trump
The hollow man has his priorities sorted just like his finances.
Quite right. Luxon quick off the mark with his condemnation,
But I don't recall him being so quick (if at all) condemning the US bombing of a girl's school in Iran that killed 158 people, most of them children of about 8.
Hypocrit!
Yes Tony, absolute hypocrite. Every time I see the words Prime Minister and Christopher Luxon together, I ponder how did we come to this?
I read a something that made me sad over the weekend. A parent of a child at the school the Americans bombed was reported as saying something like "we can no longer hold the warm bodies of our children. We only have their bloody school bags and books."
And Peters is equally to blame with his weasel words trying to not offend a madman in the White House. I heard a comment recently from someone whose opinion I normally pay attention to saying Peters was doing a good job as Foreign Minister representing us on the world stage.
I thought, really? Keeping silent about war crimes and genocide is doing a good job? Maybe realpolitik "trumps" morality and justice for some people.
It's all a question of 'us' versus 'them'.
Luxon and Trump are national leaders, of the Right, English speaking and connected through common history and heritage.
Yesterday in a time of contemplation the answer as to why wars happen came to me. It's 'us' versus 'them'. It's 'othering', the opposite of empathy and 'wokeness'. an othering word in itself.
Luxon condemned an attack on his own, his like, his 'us'.
The civilians in Gaza, in Iran, in Vietnam, in Hiroshima, in Guernica were 'them'.
This is why I hold Jacinda Ardern in the highest respect when she described the massacred dead in the Christchurch Mosque- "They are us".
Of course, the process of 'othering', 'them versus us' is well known as a necessary adjunct of war. That process of dehumanisation is a ongoing and practised methodology. The typification of Jews as subhuman by the Nazis was one such example.
Our enemies were vilified, objectified, and collectively dehumanised with the names we all know. Not only in warfare but in so-called civil society- in politics, in religion, in race and ethnicity, in nationalities and even in sport (which some describe as an alternative to warfare), in gender, age and sexual identity.
Meta AI said this- "The statement that those we wish to kill must first be dehumanized is a well-documented psychological and sociological phenomenon, often cited as a critical step in enabling mass violence, war crimes, and genocide. Dehumanization involves stripping a person or group of their human qualities, making it easier to overcome natural moral inhibitions against harming others."
It went on to describe the dehumanisation process which included Psychological Disengagement, a tool to distance ourselves from our victims, the Role of Language using derogatory slurs and metaphors to label a group as inferior or dangerous, Justification for Atrocities where immoral acts are justified as necessary as the victims as less than human, and as a Precursor to Genocide where creating a shared perception is created that a group is a threat."
The antidote to all this, finally, is deliberate ‘rehumanization’, which involves recognizing the common humanity of all people, practicing empathy, and fostering awareness. This requires a commitment to truth and the rejection of labels that promote hatred or violence.
It involves us………
Your opening point is echoed with Luxon's sanctimonious "violence has no place in our democracies".
Luxon and his backers see Aotearoa and the USA aligned in terms of values and goals. Others of us consider the last country that we want to be aligned with is a rogue failed state with so much inequity and injustice internally and under Trump causing havoc globally.
Luxon would never be able to credibly say something like "they are us" because as you are saying for him and others like him, "they are not us".
What 'values and goals' though? They in NZ have been swept aside by monetarism and class identity, so keeping up with the Jones is more important than valuing people as beings and helping them and the nation to rise to its highest abilities at outcomes that are beneficial and good for most of us at any time. Compassion and a helping hand and mediation for problems and attention to citizen's requirements by authorities done with respect and expectation they will try to assist themselves thereafter, and others in their lives, to create a circle of integrity, is not the norm. If it was we would become such a busy, thriving nation, without much of our angst and anger!
We risk othering Luxon as "one of those guys who others".
I think we've othered other-than humans; everything we name, in fact. Stars, rivers, winds and willows. Language has a lot to answer for. It's very difficult though, to differentiate with intellect, without othering. Artists and poets try. Babies are naturals at it, for a while. The easiest othering to address though, is othering humans – at least we could get that sorted, then perhaps start on … the others.
Having just now failed with Wordle, I can hardly claim superiority. You are right about the trap of 'othering' those with whom we disagree, however strongly. Virtue signalling is certainly no way to engage with the Right, either.
I strongly disagree with what Trump believes and does, but at the bottom of it I see a wee boy who was othered – treated coldly by his mother, bullied by his father- who became who he is as a result of other's action and inactions.
Narcissists are created. By whom? Genetics or 'us'?
But more relevant, in our case with Luxon et al., how do 'we' keep the sociopaths and the narcissists, the criminals, the self-obsessed, the undesirables, from political office?
'We' vote for them. 'We' stay out of the political process, Do 'we' act by joining parties, selecting good candidates, advocating good policies, working for candidates, donating money and time.
Politicians can do great and wonderful things. They can create welfare states, remove compulsory military training, ban racist rugby tours, even abolish the military as Costa Rica did in 1949.
Politicians could spend trillions on health, education, welfare, the environment etc.
Eventually we could be said to be othering ourselves by the way we treat others…..
Beautiful and thoughtful comment on this ANZAC public holiday. It's tough to practice empathy towards the self-serving cabal of NAct MPs who are, imho, quite deliberately facilitating the speed-wrecking of New Zealand Aotearoa, but I’ll try for the rest of today.
Thanks for that, and the wikipedia article,
The ten stages of genocide is an academic tool and a policy model which was created in 1987 by Gregory Stanton, American jurist, former research professor and founding president of Genocide Watch. The model characterizes how genocides occur and what are adequate preventative measures
Reading this will be a task on this ANZAC public holiday.
That, and planting broad beans. Thoreau knew something…..
Stage 4 dehumanisation. Shane Jones's comment on 'tsunamis of butter chicken' is in this stage, I believe.
There is an opinion piece in today's The Press on page 14 titled "Racist NZ: I'm not 'butter chicken', but I've heard it all before'. https://www.thepost.co.nz/nz-news/360992521/racist-new-zealand-im-not-butter-chicken-ive-heard-it-all
And on page 15 titled "Signs of a community feeling under siege." https://www.pressreader.com/new-zealand/the-press/20260427/281702621310841
Signs of a community under siege because of racism are not good and good on our media for these two opinion pieces.
Obviously topics for public debate and actions.
The stage four genocide action recommends "Local and international leaders should condemn the use of hate speech and make it culturally unacceptable. Leaders who incite genocide should be banned from international travel and have their foreign finances frozen."
Sorry, Shane, no overseas junkets for you. And who else?
'Othering' is not in itself a bad thing; recognising other people's differences is not bad. Asking people where they come from is not bad. Taking an interest in other people's differences is not bad. It has been presented as so by people off on a wave of emotional confabulation.
What is bad is not treating other humans with respect even when they are different, from different classes of society, behaving outside reasonable norms – can they be accepted? Breaking laws – are they to be 'othered'. Where does it stop?
Part of our recognition process is to process mentally our impressions. Warily checking people encountered for good nature and likely probity, is wise and right. Sometimes people are not all good but you decide to like them anyway, but maybe not trust them.
Being ordered how to treat people doesn't give one a chance to learn about them. I am at present getting takeaway dinners and most are provided by Asians. We enjoy talking to each other, exchange family information, and some plans for future, and I admire them. I question them and they me.
I didn't see anything wrong with the Labour guy who was attempting to find the extent of Chinese home ownership in Auckland, looking for Chinese names though records. Stats were not available to him; he was accused of being racist for wanting to measure home ownership by newcomers to Auckland at a time of Chinese penetration, now Indian, also wealthy pakeha property speculators.
We must be careful about striking 'virtue- signalling' poses. Be open, polite, reserved for sure, but the methods of control of social intercourse forced by UK authorities are beyond reason. If people don't know about their extent I will put them up if asked but have not time at present.
Not necessarily bad, but possibly a sign of the times, place and attitude. When my elderly father could still walk, he would often accompany me to the local Chinese takeaway. Alas, his memory was already quite porous, and he never failed to ask the husband and wife proprietors where they (NZ born and bred) were from. To be fair, they did look a bit ‘different’, and it was something to say.
More than 20 years ago, when I was still a bit of a walker, I was wandering along the shoreline south of Himatangi Beach when a couple of Māori lads asked me where I was from. The style of sun hat I was wearing might have suggested Aussie, but I reassured them in no uncertain terms that I was from Palmy
In fact DrowsyM anyone on this earth should stop occasionally and wonder where they came from. An internet site advised about visiting a country where people would stop you on a walk and ask all sorts of questions about your family; just what they naturally did. The Turkish takeaway guy says that Turks are far friendlier and warmer to each other than we are.
I think on Kierkegaard and his philosophical storm of questions. What a comparison to a few queries attempting to know a person somewhat in a few seconds. These from under 'Repetition (1843)' in –
The object(s) of anyone’s curiosity are personal, but time grows short. Appreciate the advice, but it's wasted on me – thankfully.
Manifesto of shooter. Hard to disagree with his criticism of trump and his cronies.
I was gifted a voucher for a tour to Kapiti Island last year for my birthday. Took advantage of it yesterday.
Being predator free what an abundance of bird life Kaka, hihi, North Island robin, whitehead, bellbirds etc.
We decided that since my wife's parents climbed to the top when they were 60 we would do the same. 534 meters and I am feeling every step I took in my thighs today.
It doesn't help when you carry an extra 30 kilograms all the way…
I thoroughly recommend the trip to anyone with half an interest in our native birds.
It's definitely a place I want to go to. I'm actively involved with pest control to protect birds and went on a possum cull last night. Surprisingly few possums (given what our trail camera pics had shown) but we put a good dent in the peafowl population.
I've more than "half an interest", and have been to Kapiti. I saw kōkako. Weird! 🙂 Wonderful! I climbed to the top and saw… long tailed cuckoo! Great day. Memorable.
I visited three times in my 30s, once with a group of graduate students who were keen to walk up the eastern shoreline to the lagoon at the north-eastern tip – good times.
On another occasion I missed the boat (although I did arrive in time to wave it goodbye), and so spent a nice day wandering around Queen Elizabeth Park.
The US Secretary of State is practicising a worldwide threat of technocracy elimination of those who offend the American government by being pro Palestinian.
Expelling foreign students, blocking entry to those with anything pro Palestinian on social media & threats to education institutions if they allow pro Palestinian protests was the domestic form.
The technocracy is applied internationally against the UN special rapporteur on human rights in the Palestinian territories and judges on the ICC.
Effectively classifying them as terrorists.
The actions give one clear message. The USA is an opponent of there ever being a Palestinian state that includes the West Bank. This means Israel not meeting its 1949 UN membership terms.
Thus the targeting of UN and ICC staff.
This is why it wants to impose a peace on Ukraine that involves cession of land in breach of the UN Charter.
Normalising might is right.
And expecting others to support it.
The lack of response by the UK and EU and UN is moral cowardice.
https://www.thepost.co.nz/world-news/360993530/no-bank-no-email-no-paypal-life-us-sanctioned-icc-judge
https://archive.li/UOR8h
"The problem is the dominance of US companies in technology and financial transactions."
This will change when the inevitable catastrophic AI crash occurs.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/593506/green-party-disapproves-of-government-granting-prospecting-permit-for-unesco-site
This govt really, really don't give a flying fuck about NZ or it's people
Sounds off yet has no knowledge of reality. In September 2011, Fitch Ratings and Standard & Poor's lowered New Zealand's credit rating to AA. A 2008 recession followed by earthquakes.
What guard-rails under Fast Track?
Mitigation …. who pays and will
Our debt cost is 2% of GDP, the OECD average is over 3%.
His approach is a choice not a necessity.
A shill for corporate interests and he wants party donations.
bunch of fucking vandals.
Absolutely fucking agree Weka. I was thinking what is the point of "heritage sites" & "protected sites" if they can be given away anyway, then I figured, that is the point, Jones is pretty much saying it's all up for grabs, who gives a fuck. He's so utterly detestable & may go down as the worse NZr ever.
Nothing is safe. Fight hard to protect what you believe is valuable. Don't be fooled. They rely on you being fooled into thinking the things you value are safe; they are not.
Same old.
Sorry, Weka, not vandals. Vandals destroy but don't profit materially from their destruction. What we have here is looting……. theft by fiat,
fair point.
Great cartoon today in The Press by Sharon Murdoch on his theft by fiat…..
Don't it always seem to go… please please tow Shane "beyond the environment."
“The god-fearing ability [?] of Kiwis and Aussies…”
The mind boggles. And yes that link from The Spinoff…Matua ShaneJones in full hyperbolic flight (almost stratospherically so : ) blurting word salad (and strange toxic salad at that)
You probably have already seen this on Sam Neill..but if not, and for others? I have also seen the Santana Mine supporters pages (which I am not going to link : ( ….as IMO
ParentalRational Advisory discretion required….. Also IMO, Matua Shane Jones is their prophet.Politicians abusing (or selling) the environment for short term electoral advantage is nothing new; the coalition is just being more brazen about it.
Way back in the 1970s the NZ Forest Service wanted to set up a chipping mill in the Nelson area, to be fed by West Coast beech forests. Trees that took hundreds of years to grow were to be sacrificed to provide a few forestry jobs.
That led to the formation of the Native Forest Action Council, in which one Guy Salmon participated.
Long before that we had the Tasman Pulp and Paper Company Enabling Act 1954, which allowed a paper-making company to dump crud in the Tarawera river, turning it black.
These days it's water resources that get hammered, as a glance at Canterbury rivers will show.
If Shane Jones and the Coalition of Cockups have their way, we will become Nauru.
A big hole, a wasteland, surrounded by roads and rusting cars, with all the wealth sold!
It seems to have escaped them, in the quest for quick "magic fixes" that the poorest parts of New Zealand are former mining towns. Thames, and the townspeople, for example, were bankrupt and needed bailing out after the gold mines left. A more far sighted Government used the displaced workforce for more permanent industry, some of which survived the Great 80's fire sale. The West coast is still one of the poorest parts of NZ despite decades of coal mining.
All because we have Governments who prefer short term "sugar rushes" to the hard yards of investing in long term productivity.
Would a gardening analogy work here?
Imagine a yard, a property where half is infertile and the other a rich mineral deposits on top of which plants grow vigorously.
Do you dig up the mineral and spread it over the poor soil in order to grow good crops there also, or do you harvest the vegetation from the vigorous site and spread it as compost over the poor half?
The former action would produce quicker results, but cause great disruption and fundamental change to both sides.
The latter action would take longer, but result in a balanced, non-invasive solution to the needs of all.
Just "thinking allowed" – This is simplistic, I know and I don't expect a response, but I think it's illustrative of a wider approach to resources and the distribution of wealth.