Open Mike 23/04/2026

88 comments on “Open Mike 23/04/2026”

Comment numbers have changed to permanent references. Older quoted numbers may no longer identify the same comment.

  1. 1

    In the House yesterday, Luxon addressed Hipkins as, "son", just as Key used to do with Goff.

    Clearly, Luxon's meeting with Key over the weekend involved some media training of the schoolyard bully sort.

    1. 1.3

      Christopher Luxon is…55. Chris Hipkins is 47. I'd say besides being patronising and condescending..its actually more another Luxo fail. What a doofus : )

    2. 1.4

      Luxon is no Key, despite him being sold to the electorate as Key Mk II by a fawning right wing press. He lacks Key's affability, and the more under pressure he comes the more a very unattractive surly arrogance comes to the fore. Anyway, the phone is off the hook now for Luxon – the public can't stand him.

      Quite how his ego will cope with being the leader of the first one term National government I don't know, but I am hoping he'll take it extremely badly, stop shaving and showering, and seek refuge in the bottle at a cheap motel in Paeroa.

      1. 1.4.1

        Paeroa is the 'antique capital' of the North Island – a place where old, disused items sit quietly in cluttered shops and get nostalgically remembered by browsing members of the Auckland gentry passing through to Whangamata and Waihi Beach.

        So, in a way it sounds just right. But I like the place as a road stop and get the feeling it's been trying to remake itself somewhat for several years, so really it deserves better. If anything goes to expire in Paeroa, it should be the Key Template as the idealised model for selecting National Party leaders. Luxon has killed it, and not a moment too soon.

    3. 1.5

      Mercurio, I heard Luxon say that too and thought the same thing yesterday. Winston Peters btw has a habit of using 'sunshine' in the same way. Both usages are condescending and /or bullying and I would have thought unacceptable, but then these two men are not 'woke', are they?

      Not at all.

      1. 1.5.1

        Woke?

        No. Luxon's more pig in a poke.

        Winston's less "sunshine", more "where the sun don't shine", I reckon.

        Key has advised Luxon to get some guts. Next, Luxon will be calling the Labour Party, "The Devil Beast" as Key did when he was PM; testing the waters then, found them to his liking. That sort of rhetoric is going to be deployed full-on soon, is my prediction. Hipkins must resist. He slipped up yesterday frown

      2. 1.5.2

        Rather fond of that sort of thing on the RW, aren't they? I haven't forgotten Pullya Benefit's "sweetie".

        BTW, the Luxon/Hipkins age difference surprised me. Looks a lot more than only 8 years.

        1. 1.5.2.1

          Looks a lot more than only 8 years.

          IMO very much in Chippies favour. Chris Hipkins Bikes a lot : )

          Christopher Luxon…?

  2. 2

    Moody's downgrades us, Willis says that validates the Government's approach.

    Chickens. Roosting. At home.

    1. 2.1

      Finance Minister Nicola Willis says Moody’s decision to revise New Zealand’s Aaa outlook from stable to negative – the second agency to downgrade its outlook – reinforces that New Zealand can’t keep borrowing and spending more.

      Moody’s warns that if deficits remain and debt keeps rising, our outlook will worsen – increasing the costs of servicing the debt, squeezing businesses and leaving less funding for the public services New Zealanders rely on.

      Even the Taxpayers Union has commented on the failure of the 2023-2026 government to stop the growth in debt.

      The OECD has advised increased tax on capital gain for some time.

      https://www.thepost.co.nz/business/360991436/moodys-credit-rating-agency-downgrades-outlook-new-zealand

      Across the 38 members of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), debt service costs as a percentage of national income rose to 3.3% in 2024, from 2.4% in 2021.

      https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/mar/20/government-debt-costs-oecd-countries-payments

      1. 2.1.1

        In 2024, GDP was $435B and finance costs were $8.9B

        The debt servicing ration is at 2.04%.

        Much lower than the OECD average at 3.3%.

    2. 2.2

      Ardern/Robertson's government consistently had a AAA rating.

      Govt economic management given tick of approval by ratings agency | Beehive.govt.nz

      Sadly not many voters will recall this, partly because the media don't report/remember it but also because Labour too often fail to point it out.

      Listen to the exchanges in Parliament and they go like this …

      Hipkins/Edmonds: Question about the economy.

      Luxon/Willis: "You totally stuffed it up!"

      Hipkins/Edmonds: Ignore this. Go to next pre-scripted question.

      They should push back every single time. Mostly they don't, and that's how the narrative takes hold.

      They should be saying "AAA" every day. Because it's true.

      1. 2.2.2

        I don't think he opposition are allowed to preface questions with comments, even an Aaa?

        But yes they should, everytime, until Brownlie stops them

      2. 2.2.3

        https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/parliament/story/2019032031/questions-for-oral-answer-for-wednesday-22-april-2026

        During Question Time yesterday, from about 32 minutes in, Barbara Edmonds asked Nicola Willis about food prices and inflation. (Someone may be able to provide the video). Chris Hipkins raised a point of order regarding Willis's answer and was speaking. At 35.30 minutes Willis emitted a strange, loud, groaning sound as if she was in pain, hence Hipkins' comment "she may need some medical help", along with other MPs expressing concern. Willis raised a new point of order, saying she takes offence at that comment and has complained to the media.

        A typical response from Willis, making herself the victim of her own rude, disruptive behaviour, in a clear attempt to deflect from her unfounded comments about the recent Labour government and her bizarre interruption. Pathetic.

  3. 3

    The Waitaha hydro development has been granted consent under the heinous fast-track process.

    "An application to dam the river as part of the ‘Waitaha Hydro project’ was declined in 2019 by the Minister for the Environment David Parker. It was shown then to offer little benefit to New Zealand, while causing significant impacts on the natural character of the wild Waitaha River and Morgan Gorge, the intrinsic value of the area, and people’s enjoyment of it."

    Another fast-track disaster. Labour should legislate to get rid of the fast-track process on day one.

    https://www.fasttrack.govt.nz/projects/waitaha-hydro/the-decision

    https://www.greens.org.nz/fast_track_decision_looms_on_destructive_waitaha_hydo_scheme

  4. 4

    But ya gotta have the fast track so things can get done.

    And if things can get done we will have progress.

    And that progress means New Zealand will be … um, actually no-one has figured that out yet.

    1. 4.1

      Is this irony?

      The purpose of the fast-track process is to prevent public involvement and avoid developments having to comply with rules in district plans and other documents. The process is fundamentally anti-democratic and has proved a disaster.

      The vast majority of infrastructure projects/developments have sailed through the consent process with no delays-fast-track is not needed for these.

      1. 4.1.1

        You are 100% correct about public involvement being shoved aside. I assume the aim of fast-track is for pet projects of the government and its supporters to be rammed thru'.

        The Ruataniwha dam scheme is a good example – rejected under the RMA after costly litigation by Forest & Bird Society. It is now a zombie project that looks like it will enrich a few in Hawkes Bay but will be paid for by the wider community and the environment in general.

        1. 4.1.1.1

          enrich a few in Hawkes Bay but will be paid for by the wider community and the environment in general.

          HT II and BG. Re the Ruataniwha dam scheme, over many years I have previously commented on The Standard (and I know you have HT II ) about this fkn project.

          Some Links with background, History, and privatising the profit while socialising the cost.…

          The Ruataniwha Dam: what is it, and why has it been renamed to the Tukituki Water Storage Scheme?

          https://www.greenpeace.org/aotearoa/story/the-ruataniwha-dam-what-is-it-and-why-has-it-been-renamed-to-the-tukituki-water-storage-scheme/

          Failed Ruataniwha dam still causing contention as council agrees to relieve financial stress of backers

          https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/422981/failed-ruataniwha-dam-still-causing-contention-as-council-agrees-to-relieve-financial-stress-of-backers

          Ruataniwha dam proponents owe council more than $250,000

          https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/129713803/ruataniwha-dam-proponents-owe-council-more-than-250000

          Also pertinent (IMO very much so) was the kinda similar Waimea dam. Did they listen ? Fck no : (

          And this besides the many Environmental reasons…

          Waimea dam project doesn't stack up, says economist Peter Fraser

          https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/98401122/waimea-dam-project-doesnt-stack-up-says-economist-peter-fraser

          And so it goes…

          Controversial Waimea dam more than double projected cost

          https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/538863/controversial-waimea-dam-more-than-double-projected-cost

          HT II, this is a link to your initial comment….

          https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/591690/opponents-unhappy-with-controversial-18-million-hawke-s-bay-dam-project

          1. 4.1.1.1.1

            Thanks for the update and the links to earlier comments.

            I assume the aim of the water scheme is to bring dairying to Hawkes Bay, which means we will get the same environmental results as in Canterbury.

            1. 4.1.1.1.1.1

              Correct, HT11, though industry will flatly deny that increasing irrigation results in greater dairy expansion and intensification.

              It does.

            2. 4.1.1.1.1.2

              HT II : IMO…yes. More short term gain (no, not really) for long term pain (yes, really)

              And as I said, beyond the many Environmental/Health aspects, its the old farming/right wing socialising the cost while privatising the profit.

              You might, or not, have seen the following Link? I am gobsmacked at the entitlement let alone the Environmental damage : (

              Australian company plans $3b lignite-to-fertiliser plant in Southland

              Victorian Hydrogen's plan would involve building a facility that can turn the Southland lignite into gas that can then be transformed into urea.

              Greenpeace's Will Appelbe, both I have much respect for..

              Greenpeace agriculture spokesperson Will Appelbe said a coal‑to‑fertiliser plant would "add to a toxic cocktail of pollution that is cooking the climate, contaminating drinking water, and wrecking lakes and rivers across the country."

              Greenpeace argued synthetic nitrogen fertiliser produced more greenhouse gas emissions in New Zealand than the domestic aviation sector and was a major contributor to freshwater nitrate contamination.

              Appelbe said the project would "induce demand, and bake in a reliance on synthetic nitrogen fertiliser for decades, forcing New Zealand farmers to stay trapped in a system that doesn't work for people, animals, or the planet."

              https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/country/593041/australian-company-plans-3b-lignite-to-fertiliser-plant-in-southland

              Alternative? This was NZ Geo article…there are others. Big read..but has pictures, good looking too : )

              Regeneration

              “There’s no excuse for the state of New Zealand waterways,” says Masters. “Why are you pouring all that nitrogen on? You don’t need to.”

              https://www.nzgeo.com/stories/regeneration/

  5. 5

    Labour warns exporters the India FTA is a 15 year deal, because one part will not be fulfilled (National thinks a commitment to support $20B of private sector investment does not have to amount to anything) and that might result in a future reduction in access (the agreement gives India the right to do so).

    The government is to

    • Provide Budget funding for at least 14 additional staff in the labour inspectorate focused on migrant worker exploitation and serious and complex immigration offending.
    • Speed up the processing of Variation of Condition for those visa holders seeking to change employer.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/360969020/labour-support-india-free-trade-agreement

    1. 5.1

      That is 20 billion in USD – so 33 to 34 billion NZ dollars.

      Are there any businesses who support this agreement even saying they will invest in India. What businesses, what industries and when? They have been very quiet on this and no media are asking. It is all very well to say it has business support but apart from selling product there, causing supply/demand price rises here, increasing overseas remittances to India upon which they have quite a nice contribution to their economy happening and importing more labour lowering wages here where is the commitment to anything else.

      Current investment is very low and NZ businesses are carrying a lot of debt (unlike landlords who have been paying off debt over the last 10 or so years).

      I'm conscious that this is all money that won't circulate through our economy. All thee things seem to be driving out small business in favour off large extractive corporates.

      The remittances sent back home by Indians working abroad have registered a 14 per cent rise in the financial year 2024-25 to a record 135.46 billion dollars, according to data compiled by the RBI. Indians working abroad sent home a record 129.4 billion dollars in 2024. The RBI said the inflows, classified under “private transfers”, accounted for more than 10 per cent.

      India tops the list of recipient countries for remittances in 2024 and is way ahead of second-placed Mexico with 68 billion dollars. China (48 billion dollars ) is in the third spot, followed by the Philippines (40 billion dollars) and Pakistan (33 billion dollars ), according to figures compiled by World Bank economists.

      The number of Indians working overseas has tripled from 6.6 million in 1990 to 18.5 million in 2024, with its share in global migrants rising from 4.3 per cent to over 6 per cent during the same period.

      https://www.newsonair.gov.in/remittances-by-indians-working-abroad-scale-record-high-of-135-billion-in-fy25/

      1. 5.1.1

        With milk powder and dairy not part of the deal what else can we sell a population with a median income of $400 per month?

        More raw products – nothing value added.

        33 billion dollars worth of raw products?

        They have not been too keen on supermarkets in the past due to putting small businesses on the scrap heap but are starting to loosen up slightly. Problem is we can't even get local product into our own supermarkets so how can we get it into a country with a much lower income base. Only sell to the rich I guess.

        In January 2012, India approved reforms for single-brand stores welcoming anyone in the world to innovate in Indian retail market with 100% ownership, but imposed the requirement that the single brand retailer source 30 percent of its goods from India. Indian government continues the hold on retail reforms for multi-brand stores. In June 2012, IKEA announced it had applied for permission to invest $1.9 billion in India and set up 25 retail stores. An analyst from Fitch Group stated that the 30 percent requirement was likely to significantly delay if not prevent most single brand majors from Europe, USA and Japan from opening stores and creating associated jobs in India

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retailing_in_India

        Only sell to the rich I guess!

        Which takes us back to Citibanks plutonomy.

        https://www.sourcewatch.org/images/8/86/CITIGROUP-OCTOBER-16-2005-PLUTONOMY-MEMO.pdf

          1. 5.1.1.1.1

            Thought it was obvious

            what else can we sell a population with a median income of $400 per month?

            Bit hard to make a profit off people who earn that much with value added product. If we are going to invest that amount of money we need to at least balance that with that amount of trade back otherwise there is no benefit to New Zealand. Hence selling lower cost raw product.

                1. 5.1.1.1.1.1.1.1

                  You’re confused and conflating trade and investment.

                  Total two-way trade between New Zealand and India, which is forecast to become the world's third-largest economy by around 2030, was valued at $3.68 billion in the year to June 2025.

                  Of this, New Zealand exported goods and services valued at $1.79 billion [MFAT has it at $2.03 billion] to India over that period.

                  This makes India the country's 21st-largest goods export market and fifth-largest services export market.

                  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/indonz/584400/unpacking-the-details-of-new-zealand-s-free-trade-deal-with-india

                  Goyal responded to questions about a promise in the free trade agreement (FTA) that NZ's private sector would invest US$20 billion (NZ$34.6b) into India over the next 15 years. “If they do not invest, there will be a clawback of benefits,” Goyal told journalists.

                  The NZ government has said the figure is aspirational, and the agreement is an aim to promote investment that doesn’t commit NZ companies to a specific foreign investment target. The foreign investment target is partially controversial because according to India’s inward Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) statistics, between April 2000 and June 2025, New Zealand invested a total of US$88.15 million across 25 years, which is 0.44% of the US$20b investment 15-year aim specified in the India-New Zealand FTA.

                  https://businessdesk.co.nz/article/politics/nz-to-sign-free-trade-agreement-with-india-public-will-now-see-the-text

                  1. 5.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1

                    It is also controversial because India has the right to restrict trade access in the future, because of a lack of investment, something Hipkins warned New Zealand exporters about.

                  2. 5.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.2

                    No I'm looking at how that becomes an investment as opposed to a donation.

                    Either we get to sell goods as a return or we extract profit / dividends / interest from what we put money into.

                    I haven't heard one business say they want to risk actually investing in India once this FTA is signed but plenty say they wish to see more product sold.

                    Even F&P have only a few jobs there.

                    1. 5.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.2.2

                      Reinforces what I'm saying. We really only want to sell them stuff.

                      Export activity was a significant focus of the businesses surveyed with 35% of businesses being primarily exporters, 31% being both an exporter and a manufacturer and 29% of respondents are domestic focused but exploring India as a potential market.

                      You really think NZ businesses will invest anywhere near those billions in India. Promotional documents by national party sycophants isn't facts.

                      Investment is cautious but rising. 51% spent < NZ$100k over the past 3 years; 52% plan to invest < NZ$500k over the next 3 years, with a preference for partnership‑led models to manage risk.

                      Even when direct spending is mentioned most of it is intending.

                    2. 5.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.2.2.1

                      We really only want to sell them stuff.

                      Selling and buying; see my previous comment @ 11:57 am.

                      You really think NZ businesses will invest anywhere near those billions in India.

                      I’m with Hipkins/Labour on that:

                      “The deal cuts tariffs, and increases market access for New Zealand exporters, and that is very welcome. But the $33 billion investment target is unrealistic and missing it could see benefits clawed back in 15 years.

                      […]

                      “Labour’s position on the FTA is settled. Our expectations, both on implementation of the commitments above, and on how this Government conducts itself toward the communities affected, are not negotiable,” Chris Hipkins said

                      https://www.labour.org.nz/news/release-labour-to-support-india-free-trade-agreement/

                      Promotional documents by national party sycophants isn’t facts.

                      The survey report to which 74 businesses responded was a joint effort by the Auckland Business Chamber, the Consulate General of India in Auckland, and Deloitte, but sure, if you don’t trust these because they are National Party ‘sycophants’.

                      In your opinion, is Zespri also a National Party ‘sycophant’?

                      https://www.zespri.com/en-NZ/publications/newsroomdetail/New-Zealand-India-FTA-opens-door-to-major-kiwifruit-opportunity

                    3. 5.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.2.3

                      Yeah I've had dealings with the Auckland Chamber of Commerce. My description stands.

                      Back in the day the Auckland Chamber of Commerce forecast Ohura as the big urban inland city in the future due to its location and fertile soils.

                      Pretty sure their optimism and forecasting hasn't improved much since then.

                    4. 5.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.2.3.1

                      Pretty sure their optimism and forecasting hasn’t improved much since then.

                      I thought their recent survey report on NZ-India business engagement was quite decent but I don’t have your expertise. Anyway, I proffered it as just one example of existing & future-intentional NZ investment in India to illustrate that point of the FTA; the US$20 billion investment target over 15 years seems a tall order.

  6. 6

    Oh look, dipshit has got himself in the news, again

    A major education union is seeking legal advice in a bid to exempt state schools from the Official Information Act after an Auckland law student sent an onerous “system-wide” records request to nearly 2500 schools.

    […]

    Spanz president Louise Anaru also wrote a scathing letter of complaint last month to University of Auckland (UoA) Vice-Chancellor Dawn Freshwater after law student Regan Cunliffe sent a mass request for details of school trustees’ use of personal devices to 2422 state and state-integrated schools.

    She wrote that Cunliffe’s request was not a simple exercise to establish how a particular school managed its records.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/education/principals-push-to-exempt-schools-from-official-information-act-burden-after-mass-request-to-2400-schools/premium/VVWOAOX32RAV3DUOPCZJQLJ6Z4/

    archivedotcom

    Newspaper journalist Bevan Hurley appears to be the target of wannabe media proprietors Cameron “FFS I’m not a journalist” Slater and his off-sider, bitter ex-entertainment blogger Regan Cunliffe.

    By “target” I mean they’re repeatedly attacking him and his reputation, apparently trying to make him the face of alleged malfeasance in the news media. The context is a breathless effort to express fear and loathing – as a fund-raising technique! “We desperately need to change how journalism is done”, Regan Cunliffe sobbed in a recent e-mail, with a deluded Trump-like We “has the answer”. It seems they want to raise money from cult members/punters to “invest” in their much-hyped, stop-and-go, deep-fried news business.

    Here’s Bevan Hurley’s response to the part of Regan Cunliffe’s fevered tale of woe/begging letter that attacks him … – P

    https://www.thepaepae.com/guest-post-regan-cunliffe-spouts-utter-bollocks/37209/

    1. 6.1

      'A major education union is seeking legal advice in a bid to exempt state schools from the Official Information Act' If this is a bad thing can you please explain why

    2. 6.2

      In this case I think you're playing the man rather than the ball, the request is part of his law studies and it's a very genuine use of the OIA.

      When Spanz is complaining about an OIA request that

      “is a carefully designed, system-wide exercise intended to map legislative non-compliance across the school sector."

      you would have to think they've got more than few concerns around compliance in the schools they represent.

      Perhaps have a read of https://norightturn.blogspot.com/2026/04/schools-belong-in-oia.html for an alternate view. The author is a staunch advocate for the OIA and on no planet are they right wing.

    3. 6.3

      I'm on a school board and I absolutely believe we should be subject to the OIA. In fact, I believe we should go much further and be more proactive in releasing data to our communities (as long as it doesn't breach our kid's privacy or our employment responsibilities to the staff)

      If we get caught being non-compliant by releasing information, then good. We should be.

      It's just basic democratic accountability

      1. 6.3.1

        Res Publica Thank you for that point. It is true that there is too much top-down stuff deciding on citizen's matters, such as what and how education is passed on to youngsters. Many schools treat parents as recipients of services and consumers.

        There should be collaboration with outcomes and methods being tested for worth and useful outcomes and involvement of parents with interested children, in night classes looking at subjects that affect all. Even showing how to form a group that runs a project such as school fair.

        This century will be very demanding for those wishing for a value-guided, ethical civilisation. So needed is to get youngsters to realise their talents at a much younger age. I have in mind limiting secondary school and getting youngsters at 14-15 into short term apprenticeships. Let them start with small projects at intermediate, and play computer games like SimCity from say age 7- 8 as has been regarded as the early age at which children can make thoughtful actions and some responsibility.

        Then they will know more about real life's demands as they are included in political life and government while those over 60 must retire! Are we ready to make such change? Maybe being more open with parents now by school boards would enable both to learn something new, ready for this shocking century which will guarantee more shocks from all directions than any previous one.

    4. 6.4

      No exemptions under OIA but the request is quite unusual for a university research project. I’d expect that (ethical) approval was sought and obtained within the university of Auckland, which raises the question why the request format wasn’t a voluntary survey instead of a mass mailing forcing a response from all the recipients. Although I don’t know the objectives of the student’s research project, I do question the need & justification for a comprehensive map of all schools in NZ.

      1. 6.4.1

        I think the more important point is that under the OIA, purpose shouldn’t be the deciding factor.

        The law isn’t there to let agencies judge whether a request is ‘justified’ or worthwhile. It’s there because the information belongs to the public, and access is a right, not a favour.

        If a request is genuinely too large or complex, the Act already provides mechanisms to manage that. But that’s a question of practicality, not whether the requester’s motives pass some subjective test.

        What the Act doesn’t really address is scale in the aggregate. It treats each request on its own merits, even if hundreds or thousands of near-identical requests end up being disruptive or costly across the system.

        That might be a genuine operational issue.

        But it’s a separate question from whether institutions should be exempt, or allowed to decide which requests are ‘valid’. The risk there is far greater.”

        1. 6.4.1.1

          I’ve already stated that I think that there shouldn’t be exemptions under the OIA and I agree with your comment, mostly. However, I’m not sure you really got my point, which was about the research angle at the basis of this request, not the request itself and the OIA. As taxpayer and therefore most likely indirect part-funder of the law student’s project & education, I have a right to query and criticise the research project. Alas, we know very little about that other than that the VC of the university got involved and spent time on this with her extremely high hourly rate. And where’s the Onion in all this? They’ve been conspicuously silent on the matter.

      2. 6.4.2

        Although I don’t know the objectives of the student’s research project

        IMO, given his past, the whole thing reeks of Slater and the dirty politics mob.

        When an associate

          1. 6.4.2.1.1

            You didn’t finish your comment!?

            I've long had problems post posting on TS, html issues, between tabs and fairies decide it's time to reload and delete very nearly completed comments, double ups, etc, etc, through today's fat finger effort with no edit option available.

            So I went and did the the weekend's firewood.

            Anyhoo, short and sweet, if Cunliffe, a long time associate of Slater's, is involved, hold your nose because the Slater/DP stench will always linger.

  7. 8

    It's reassuring the Labour party are concerned about businesses when signing up for Luxon's FTA.

    "We're not going to stop the agreement proceeding because of it, but businesses need to be aware that that is a risk to them."

    14 extra labour inspectors shows they are looking out for the migrant workers best interests.

    As for other workers, well the article doesn't say if Labour consulted with unions before (inevitably) giving National and Act it's support.
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/593185/chris-hipkins-announces-labour-will-back-india-free-trade-deal

    1. 8.1

      You’d think that the unions would support the inclusion of the Modern Slavery Bill as part of the deal with Labour. I think this is smart & good politics.

      1. 8.1.1

        There is no need to undercut wages and supress conditions for blue collar workers just to get a modern slavery bill.

        I doubt that Labour sought advice from unions before helping Luxon out.

        1. 8.1.1.1

          Your first sentence is nonsensical.

          Your second sentence is also puzzling; why should Labour first seek advice, for what, and why do you think they didn’t? Unions and everybody else will be able to give feedback once the proposal is made available to the public & Parliament for scrutiny – this is the normal process and IIRC a suggestion by Labour for considering agreeing to support it.

          Your framing is telling; @ 8.1.1 you frame it as “helping Luxon out” and @ 8 you framed it as “giving National and Act it’s support”!? It makes no sense to me why Labour would such things as you frame it. Could it be that Labour sees the FTA as beneficial for something else?

          1. 8.1.1.1.1

            The modern slavery bill reeks of politicians being seen to do something. We already have plenty of rules to deal with exploitation. The means for enforcing them are under resourced.

            No need for a FTA to combat slavery.

            "why should Labour first seek advice, for what, and why do you think they didn’t?

            It's in their name. When considering a proposal that will maintain downward pressure on wages and conditions, talking to unions should be where some advice comes from.

            Along with predicting that Labour would back this agreement, I reckon the promised funding for the extra inspectors will not happen next budget.

            But hey, neo liberals gotta neo liberal.

            1. 8.1.1.1.1.1

              The modern slavery bill reeks of politicians being seen to do something.

              So, it’s just performative and for show, you reckon? Brooke van Velden said that it was not a priority for her and ACT refused to support it; this alone should give you pause.

              https://thespinoff.co.nz/business/16-03-2021/close-to-a-hundred-nz-companies-sign-letter-calling-for-modern-slavery-law

              We already have plenty of rules to deal with exploitation. The means for enforcing them are under resourced.

              The Modern Slavery Bill is about (much) more than exploitation.

              https://www.mbie.govt.nz/business-and-employment/employment-and-skills/plan-of-action-against-forced-labour-people-trafficking-and-slavery/modern-slavery [esp. the 2022 consultation document]

              A further concern was raised by Tearfund’s Claire Gray, who noted that we have no modern slavery legislation, unlike the UK and EU [and Australia since 2018]. New Zealand “runs the risk of becoming a dumping ground” for food produced in slavery conditions that is locked out of markets with tighter regulations, she told RNZ.

              https://thespinoff.co.nz/the-bulletin/16-03-2026/what-finally-broke-watties-and-what-it-means-for-the-supermarket-shelves

              No need for a FTA to combat slavery.

              FTAs are an ideal place, arguably the pivotal place, to include modern slavery clauses.

              “We have commitments in our Free Trade Agreements with the United Kingdom and the EU to take steps to prevent modern slavery in our supply chains and promote responsible business conduct. A lack of action will be detrimental to our trading relationships.

              https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/govt-prescribes-daylight-disinfectant-modern-slavery

              When considering a proposal that will maintain downward pressure on wages and conditions …

              A bold accusatory claim without substance; it requires more than handwaving and reckons.

              … I reckon the promised funding for the extra inspectors will not happen next budget.

              Why do think that? It’s a condition for Labour’s support in Parliament!?

              But hey, neo liberals gotta neo liberal.

              ??

  8. 9

    From the Herald

    https://tinyurl.com/36j8km59

    Interesting that someone thinks Labour is left wing. If only.

    "New Zealand First leader Winston Peters says his party “won’t do a deal with Labour”, as “nothing has changed” since his 2022 promise to rule out the left-wing party.

    But his National coalition partner Nicola Willis doesn’t appear convinced, saying Peters “will always find a way” to get around previous comments.""

    And we all know how much Winnie loves the baubles of office.

    1. 9.1

      It would be fun if the current opposition parties had a majority of one on election night. Then we wait 2 weeks for the real result, in which Hipkins should simply say: "We're talking and if Winston wants to join the talks he's got my number".

      Nothing else. No overtures, no pandering. Just let Winston come begging. If he doesn't then the responsibility for this dreaded left government will be his. A nice legacy.

      1. 9.1.1

        If the current opposition parties heled a majority of 1 when the final result is in they can form a Government.

        If they don't have a majority then they can't form a Government and it wouldn't matter whether Winnie had talked to them or not.

        1. 9.1.1.1

          sigh

          I never really know whether you're deliberately missing the point or not.

          There is a period (2 weeks usually) when we don't yet know the result.

          That is when parties start talking. They don't all switch off their phones and the media don't all stop reporting and speculating. The options are discussed, especially in the scenario I described.

          Winston would be under huge pressure to drop his "rule Hipkins out" bottom line. If the Greens and TPM are so unpalatable, he could not possibly insist that having them run the country is better than having at least a conversation with Labour while we wait.

          In theory he could say nothing until the final result. In reality it would be impossible.

          1. 9.1.1.1.1

            Of course you can talk, if you want to. However you cannot commit to anything until after you have a final result, or at least a result that really has no likelihood of it being overthrown when the final results are in..

            Suppose that your scenario happened. Suppose you don't talk to Winston, or he doesn't talk to you. If at the time we get the final result and they need Winston it all has to be opened up and Winston can demand anything he wants. On the other hand if they do talk to him and then find they don't need him at the time the final results are available they could simply tell Winston to take a hike. There is no way to come up with a Government until you know what the final numbers are going to be. It doesn't matter what you might want to do. When the final results are in is the first time you can make commitments.

            1. 9.1.1.1.1.1

              Of course you can talk, if you want to.

              And oh boy, sonny, Nats sure wanted to – no way would they zip it, sweetie.

              Following the release of preliminary results on 14 October, National began coalition negotiations with both ACT and New Zealand First. Christopher Luxon stated that he would be conducting these negotiations privately and would not confirm his stance on policies such as ACT's proposed referendum on Māori co-governance.
              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_New_Zealand_general_election#Government_formation

              1. 9.1.1.1.1.1.1

                Observers' premise is basically that if the election night majority come to an agreement without Winston being involved that this will stand after the final count even if they must have Winston involved, Of course it won't, and it didn't in 2023.

                Certainly National talked separately with ACT and NZF before the final results were in. However when it now required all three of them to form a coalition everything had to be opened up and it took about three weeks to put a coalition agreement together. It didn't matter in the slightest what ACT and National might have agreed on. Everything was back to being open to negotiation.

                1. 9.1.1.1.1.1.1.1

                  Observers' premise is basically that if…

                  Alwyn, that's your idiosyncratic and later obtuse reframing of observer's comment(s) – you didn't get it then, and you're still not getting it – sigh.

                  “I never really know whether you're deliberately missing the point or not.“

  9. 10

    Willis is still doing scenarios when the last government was already fully across the scenario and executing the plan to deal with it.

  10. 13

    TVNZ platform change

    Lost data is common. It is not just you.

    It can be worse, when there is a failure to load in a new watchlist as well (thus time wasted finding stuff).

  11. 15

    @Incognito @ 8.1.1.1.1.1
    Do you think labour inspectorates are adequately resourced?

    A lot of exploitation (of which slavery is at the extreme end) happens within ethnic communities. Making it harder to discover.

    As to funding these 14 new inspectors what is Labour going to do if they aren’t funded? The horses have bolted the in is dry, whatever metaphor you like. The deal is done.

    Of Seymour "He said supporting the FTA "really is putting New Zealand first" and "credit where it's due to Chris Hipkins and the Labour Party"."

    "this alone should give you pause."?

    When you find yr singing off the same songsheet as Gordon Brittas, time to change tunes.

    1. 15.1

      Do you think labour inspectorates are adequately resourced?

      No, and even less so when the Modern Slavery Bill is enacted.

      A lot of exploitation (of which slavery is at the extreme end) happens within ethnic communities. Making it harder to discover.

      Yes, but the Modern Slavery Bill doesn’t only focus on domestic breaches. Modern slavery and worker exploitation are different concepts (see https://www.mbie.govt.nz/dmsdocument/27613-regulatory-impact-statement-modern-slavery-and-worker-exploitation-reform-proactiverelease-pdf, pg. 7).

      As to funding these 14 new inspectors what is Labour going to do if they aren’t funded? […] The deal is done.

      Nope, it must be ratified by Parliament and the goal is to do this before the EU ratifies theirs with India to take advantage of the Most Favoured Nation clauses.

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