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6:00 am, October 12th, 2025 - 58 comments
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Open mike is your post.
For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.
The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).
Step up to the mike …
So I toddeled along to vote yesterday and while throwing darts at the board, to elect people I barely am aware of to roles I barely understand in some cases, I hit the Maori ward question.
To my surprise I couldn't tick the yes box , so chose to abstain, while I'm 100% behind trying to in small ways recompense Maori for the vast wrongs I feel to my bones that separatist is the wrong path.
There seemed to be a healthy number of Maori in the the general seats of which a number got my vote,
I understand the point of view.
Though don't agree.
More "separatist" in my opinion, is the proponderence of second mansion owners, in the TCDC, BOI and other holiday areas, outvoting the locals with their second or third votes.
Māori, voting in Māori wards, still only get one vote.
Firstly I don't agree that bach owners should get to vote in districts they don't reside in.
It's more a pathway thing from my point of veiw, I know what the treaty promised much to Maori but let's be real the writers never intended to honor it, and it's far to late to go down a moari government path, it's a wasteful and be divisive.
The fact that anything 'Maori' in the country is so damn divisive in the first place is a sad indictment on the citizenry.
I was also the opposite to you- couldn't bring myself to vote for any counsellors bar one for regional Council, but did vote in the referendum, with the added bonus of giving a middle finger to Seymour.
Māori voting in Māori wards are no more divisive than farmers voting in rural wards.
It is not separatist Māori Government, at all.
Both, ensure that sections of the community have a say in council decisions.
Can't agree about the bach owners (but having been one for a while, long ago now, I guess I'm biased). If people or an organisation are going to impose rules on you, then you're entitled to a say in who does the imposing.
That. Is what Māori are saying.
Ok so we need a ward for Maori award for farmers a ward for bach owners, a ward retirees a ward for unemployed a ward for the employed a ward for employees a ward for disabled, a yard for the cookers, a ward for game members a ward for woman a ward for men ?
1.Maori were promised self-governance in their lands
2.Maori today are a permanent minority in council areas.
It is the local government version of central government (Maori electorates)
Bach owners vote in their local ward, the one where they own property.
Voting is based on residence, or property ownership (impacted by council rules).
https://policy.nz/2023/party-vote/policies/te-ao-maori/subtopics/te-tiriti-o-waitangi-and-governance
Removing Māori wards might suppress separatism / division, or fuel it – cui bono?
Imho, the NAct1 CoC is a divisive govt by the sorted, for the sorted, bent on distracting from and growing division by wealth. Fare taxes to fund our future – fuhgeddaboudit!
A couple of the ways of flushing out right wingers who like to say "we believe in equal opportunity" is to ask them if they send their kids to private schools. Or want 100% inheritance taxes. After all. "equal opportunity"?
I'm extremely annoyed. A councillor from my ward who spent the last 2 years alienating just about all her constituents and was highly unlikely to get voted back in here, made a bid for the Regional Council instead, and won a seat. I can only assume name recognition had a lot to do with it.
This is on a par with the whole stupid list system, where an unpopular MP is voted out, but brought back in via the party list.
John Banks in Auckland. Springs to mind.
If splashing paint on military aircraft gets an organisation classed as "terrorist", how come this sort of vandalism and violence is not?
"Event organisers FiLiA said: "It is shocking and saddening that a conference for women to discuss domestic abuse, sexual violence and lesbian safety has been met with smashed windows, graffiti and intimidation."
"Activists from Bash Back, which describes itself as a "trans-led direct action group", posted a statement saying it was behind the vandalism.
The group said it carried out the vandalism because the conference was hosting "some of the most vicious transphobia in pop politics", and warned of further action."
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czxwv9njvlgo?fbclid=IwY2xjawNXma1leHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHgGQamJSHcNGTTQYLX4GhKWhx2Dtjlrz22mNBL11Ux-fAKr2ZsB6tx3ssHmv_aem_Od-hNltTnWVhcqKDx7039A
Neither were terrorism, both were crimes.
A direct action group that commits crimes is going to be under police surveillance from now on.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czxwv9njvlgo
agree, neither are terrorism. The state is always going to come down hard on activists who destroy part of the national defence system.
We probably need another term for what the TRAs are doing, because one of the points of the protest is intimidation. Bash Back is both intentional and coded. Pissing on doorways marks territory. Lengthy periods of time of loud noise are disruptive but also set off physiological alarm systems that are hard to override. Messages of sexual violence and rape culture say things to rape survivors specifically. On and on. I can see why some might call that terrorism. But I do think we need a different term. Maybe it's a form of stochastic terrorism.
One wonders if harassment of those of a group can be placed within the anti-stalking legislative orbit? Protection Orders and the like.
Filia applied for a Public Spaces Protection Order, but were denied by Brighton and Hove Council. I'm unclear if they applied before or after the attacks on the. building, I've seen different versions.
https://x.com/FiLiA_charity/status/1976629146756280468
https://www.thetimes.com/uk/crime/article/trans-activists-brighton-council-feminist-conference-299stm0tp
and Times non-paywalled version https://archive.is/xsRAL
Wish I could have been at the conference. It sounds like the attendees had a great and useful time there. The agenda looks pretty broad.
This is a pretty silly piece of graffitti outside the conference.
"Feminism is the refusal to define a woman"
pop politics, lol. They have no idea what women's liberation feminism is.
Well some of the most aggressive transactivists are very big on some superficial, and ultimately meaningless sloganeering that could be called pop politics. eg the slogan they're using at the demo in Brighton:
"Feminism is the refusal to define a woman"
that was particularly inane. I actually can't stand how stupid the arguments from that side are.
Words matter.
Damien Grant redefines the sovereign individual position as that of the every day garden variety layman.
He does this by saying that Chloe Swarbrick is using the international legal definition of genocide. The one used by the UN, international law, the Convention, ICJ and ICC etc.
Grant says genocide has to look what happened in the 1940's – something organised outside of war against imprisoned civilians. Not killing by bombing, continuous population displacement or starvation.
Just like Netanyahu does. Just an everyday bloke who has yet to have his time in prison.
Even a layman can do apologetics for power over human life.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/360850060/chloe-swarbrick-how-should-we-define-her-contribution-politics
Then of course there is the ACT loyalist in the libertarian, the disparity between the Green and ACT Party in polling is getting to some people.
People really can mention injustice here and abroad on the same day.
Be concerned about the environment here and global warming on the same day.
The environment includes human society.
It will always be just an environment party, or a party focused too much on other things for those “laymen” with a certain disposition.
In 1999 it was those who could not see the new century coming. The Mr Magoo syndrome.
Part 2
The use of the word mob.
The world as a mob of nations would have condemned what Germany was doing in the 1940's. Some nations responded to what they did know, by being at war with Germany in defence of other nations.
The incidents in Eastern Europe against Jews were called Pograms.
The Inquisition killed many women and also heretics
One third of Germans died in 1618-1648 because an HRE boss wanted Protestants eliminated in Bavaria and Bohemia.
The Crusades were against Moslems in the ME and Spain (and also Cathars in France). In which non Christian civilians were killed, not just Jews.
I am going to guess he will never write a column about Trump and his MAGA nationalism actions or the anti-migrant rhetoric in Europe.
For some reason ACT libertarians understand the word mammon is a Hebrew term for wealth and they like money.
The column should be read alongside Peter Thiel’s speeches to the Commonwealth club.
Occupation and settlement of other peoples land is a trait not limited to the West Bank. Those Palestinians and Maori threaten the ACT Atlas network view of the world, they do not like it when the common man seeks justice.
pogrom, not program?
Pedantic.
Pogrom, not
pogram.Well, well. Damien Grant is insisting that the legendary "man on the Clapham omnibus" looks remarkably just like Damien Grant.
He's right, words matter, and if Swarbrick et al redefine the word 'genocide' to mean 'current conflict I feel very strongly about,' it serves no purpose other than to devalue the meaning of the word.
We know, there are those who would say Israel cannot be seen as guilty of genocide, unless they do what was done to them as per people imprisoned in (the work to starvation then slaughter or not useful as labour line) camps.
Thus genocide cannot be seen as merely like that in Turkey to Armenians, not by Stalin, not by Mao, not in Cambodia, not in Sudan, not in Rwanda etc.
Where the UN, international law, Convention standard is – where the ICJ justices and scholars assess it. The international norm.
But something more unique.
Safe in the assumption that the USA will threaten those who make any attempt to make an official determination.
There are those who would say that but I'm not one of them. Armenia, Rwanda, clearly genocide. Gaza, clearly not.
Semantics.
Murder is murder.
Semantics, yes. Words need to have agreed meanings or they're worthless. If people getting killed in a war is "genocide," the word is superfluous.
Regardless of what it is called. It is still wrong.
People getting killed in a war isn't genocide, actively blocking any and all aid to trapped noncombatants while blitz bombing them on the other hand!!
Starting a brutal war against a far more powerful country that you could end at any time simply by surrendering, but then not surrendering and instead boasting about how proud you are to martyr your own people for no reason in a pointless war, is not a genocide. It’s moronic, murderous, psychotic, call it what you like, but it’s not a genocide by the people you started the war against.
The war started before 1948. Not on October 7th.
Resisting occupation.
An illegal one at that.
According to you, WW2 resistance in Europe should have just knuckled under to continued decades of brutal repression. After all, the German occupiers had the weapons.
Israel has never stopped the war for any length of time. How many agreements have been broken since 1948? Israel is taking more and more of the West Bank as we speak, despite there being no Hamas.
Ironically the biggest threat to Jewish safety is the actions of the Israeli state, in continually taking their land and killing, maiming and imprisoning Palastinians. Storing up a legacy of hatred which will end badly for Israel in time. Israeli's know it. Hence the fear. And the reactions.
If there was no Hamas, Israel would have manufactered one. Which they probably did according to some experts.
If the USA and Israel had invested the money they spent on bombs, in a Palastinian State beside Israel, we could have seen peaceful co-existance.
They even have a phrase for periodic massacres of Palastinians and hostage taking.
"Mowing the lawn"!
The claim that the war of 1947/8 can't end until Israel is destroyed is accepted by Muslims, communists and Jew-haters the world over, but there's no reason anyone outside of those groups should accept it. Also, it's just fact that the IDF wasn't involved in any action in Gaza immediately prior to Gaza's invasion of Israel and that the Gazan death toll from IDF action if Hamas hadn't invaded would be 0. If you're looking for someone to blame for deaths in this particular war, look to the people who started it.
Unless they intended to bait Isreal into gross overreacting, so as to force a 2 state solution, ?
Hamas is explicitly opposed to a two-state solution.
Oh okay 👍🏻
Snap. So is Israel.
Wellington Together is triumphant.
Apparently Little was their project, as much as Labour's.
Playing along with the right wing narrative that the Greens were unable to govern is not going to do Labour any good in the future.
It is a strategy to contain the left.
1.The right wing 4 backed the airport share sale, then changed their mind with National in power. They did this to war on the Golden Mile Project (the Wellington Together target). They hoped the impasse would have the new government appoint someone to replace the Mayor. Labour had been divided on the sale, but at the party level it was decided to make this their issue.
2.Enter Little, the Wellington Together candidate, who would block the Labour government funded Golden Mile Project.
3.The Greens should defend the right of each council area to resist amalgamation and require a majority in each area for all areas to be included.
https://www.thepost.co.nz/politics/360836539/labour-finds-its-pulse-wellington-dont-call-it-comeback
Pablo having a thoughtful rant about the state of democracy, and politics, in NZ.
https://www.kiwipolitico.com/2025/10/the-enemy-within/
”The NZ Left need to stop being defensive, get their shambolic houses in order, grow some spine and call out the rightwing hate-mongers for what they are. National may be more incompetent than intolerant, but ACT and NZ First are more intolerant than incompetent. Their use of US culture war language provides excellent recruitment material for narrow-minded, prejudiced and ignorant people on their side of the ideological street, but also works insidiously to incite violence against the supposedly extremist progressive enemy on the other side of that street. This gives the NZ Left a window of opportunity in the form of speaking the truth about Peters, Seymour, Luxon and their lesser associates. They are petty tyrants whose interest in democracy is instrumental, not intrinsic, and who are quick to drop democratic niceties if they feel that their social and political status is challenged by “woke” progressives.”
Quote from link:
I've been saying this since God made little apples.
No methane tax.
A methane from farm livestock emissions reduced down to 14% below that in 2017 by 2050.
Good for farm values – just the right time for a CG and estate tax then.
https://www.thepost.co.nz/politics/360851892/government-halves-methane-reduction-target-farmers-celebrate
National’s polling must be telling them they’re leaking support to Act. Time to shore up the farm vote.
Oops, can’t edit.
National’s polling must be telling them they’re leaking support to Act. Time to shore up the farm vote.
Call me a cynic, but
Has anyone noticed all those ructions between Toitu te Tiriti and Te Pati Maori which was ALL over the news…
was JUST before the vote on Maori wards.
Dirty Politics. Someone got played, methinks.
No, a bit too cynical here.
This was principle.
Not all Maori within one political party, or even parliamentary politics
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/574780/toitu-te-tiriti-cuts-ties-with-te-pati-maori
Principles, sure, but it is just the timing seemed very convenient.
Eru Kapa Kingi leader of Toitu te Tiriti has distanced himself (and Toitu?) from the Maori Party (cos they're dictators). OK, no big deal. Dunno if it's cos his mum the MP was sacked as Maori Party whip. Now I learn that it's Toitu te Tiriti Ltd. And the sole shareholder is Kiri Tamihere (wife of Rawiri, daugher of John the president).
Founders money. An adjunct to the party.
So a wider activism does not lead to another party?
An account opened 30 minutes before tRump announced a 100% tariff on China made $88 million shorting the crypto market, and then closed.
They want crypto to be part of government so they can go about their thieving anonymously.
An anonymous online cryptocurrency trader reportedly scored an $88 million profit after making a lofty bet that the value of Bitcoin would plummet, a bet that was made just before a major tariff announcement from President Donald Trump that saw that bet pay off in spades, leaving online critics suspicious of insider trading within the Trump administration.
https://www.rawstory.com/trump-2674176395/
If you have no principles, power is of no use other than to enrich yourself.
Our police won’t even enforce trespass orders or attend domestic violence incidents.
”On 26 April 2020 Georgia Barter, a long-term victim of domestic abuse, died in hospital after taking a fatal overdose of painkillers. Last week, in an extraordinary verdict, a coroner ruled that Georgia, 32, was unlawfully killed by her abusive partner.”
https://www.theguardian.com/society/ng-interactive/2025/oct/11/georgias-story-how-a-domestic-abuse-victims-suicide-was-ruled-an-unlawful-killing-by-her-partner?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
tl;dr, the supreme court limiting lower court abilities to rule on tRump's denial of birthright citizenship was the thin end of the wedge.
Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson dissented –
The “Dual State” Theory Was Invented to Describe Nazis. The Supreme Court Could Take Us There.
[…]
Life in the early months of Trump’s second presidency hews to this framework in important respects. How else to explain that most people enjoy a sense of normalcy while, for example, foreign students like Rümeysa Öztürk and green card holders like Mahmoud Khalil can be detained for their speech. Americans and immigrants alike can be terrorized by ICE, the federal government’s unleashed immigration force, if they speak Spanish, look nonwhite, or happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. The administration is sinking Venezuelan vessels and executing the civilians on board without any legal authorization—killings that look like war crimes or murder. The government demanded that Disney fire comedian Jimmy Kimmel as if the First Amendment didn’t exist.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2025/10/dual-state-supreme-court/
The battle for control of the areas the IDF withdrew from looms.
One presumes it will not get real till the hostages are released. Monday their time … .
It might impact on future withdrawal timing.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ce8482418plo