Five law enforcement officers have been shot dead in Dallas, Texas. Three suspects have been captured and one suspect, holed up in a garage, has apparently just shot himself.
This is the worst day in the history of the city of Dallas since November 22, 1963.
The dead are working people, most probably union members, mortgage payers, parents; good people just like you and me. They were working to keep a peaceful demonstration safe. The didn’t deserve to die.
Philando Castile and Alton Sterling are no different. All seven killed in the last few days, and the many others unnewsworthy, died because of American gun culture.
The greatest terrorist threat to the United States of America is the National Rifle Association.
A tragic end to a demonstration that was supposed to preserve life.
This was no ordinary shooting. According to the press, three shooters took positions on rooftops to “triangulate” their gunfire. In other words, they set up a coordinated ambush, waited for police to enter the kill zone, then took them under a crossfire. I am worried this signals the appearance of a black anti-police militia movement, and possibility of white supremacist militias retaliating.
If it does, then the USA has all the ingredients of a Northern Ireland style urban insurrection. A armed rebellion by a repressed minority (Catholic IRA / black militias), ultra-Nationalist terrorism (Unionist death squads / white hyper patriot militias) and a compromised local police force that lawlessly favours one side (RUC / US local police generally). Oh and throw in vicious race hate and Americas insane gun laws.
If this is the start of a insurrection, I expect it will take federal intervention and marshal law to contain it.
Total of 11 police officers shot.
The Independent (UK) says there were 4 snipers armed with rifles.
Black militia? Nah, far more likely to be a white supremacist independence group.
It was a black guy. That was obvious from the start, Tat.
Firstly, the discussion was about an “armed rebellion” not about this incident.
Secondly, don’t use my real life name, you git. Use my Standard handle Colonial Viper, or CV.
Thirdly, I guessed the characteristics of the shooter last night before any details were released.
That future cannot be discounted – the powder is dry, this coordinated approach shown here by preliminary reports could be the spark.
@ Sanctuary
“the USA has all the ingredients of a Northern Ireland style urban insurrection”
intensified by several million US Army trained professional killers returned from America’s decades of wars.
No there wasnt three shooters triangulating anything. There was only one.
Naturally early reports are often confusing and contradictory, but this is an important detail that needs correction
Philando declared his permit legal concealed weapon,
https://mylegalheat.wordpress.com/2013/12/20/concealed-carry-and-interacting-with-law-enforcement/
so who drug tests law enforcement?
The fact that his girlfriend streamed his murder on Facebook provides an invaluable record for the court.
Fifty three years ago President Kennedy was gunned down in Downtown Dallas. The ‘sniper’ shot him from the third or fourth floor of a building. You have to wonder if the snipers on this occasion were conscious of the parallels when they committed the same act on the local cops.
If there really were 4 co-ordinated shooters.
They put their plan in place within 24 hours, because the protest march had been planned within that time, and they knew that there would be a strong police presence at that march.
There are many implications from this.
If the NRA are to blame for the US gun violence then Gorden Ramsey must be to blame for all the US knife related violence.
You’re worth banning off this post.
Looks like an out and out attempt at flamming to me.
Grow up, me supporting the NRA is no different to your own odd ball views no doubt exacerbated by the fall out from chem trails.
DNFTT. There are so much more important things to be talking about than this troll bait.
Grow up? At the very least, make an intelligent comment supporting the NRA which doesn’t belong in primary school.
Because the NRA does not fit your political ideology (Marxism), you will never understand the rationale behind one of the US longest running Civil Rights Organisations (almost. 150 years).
Firstly don’t be a dick and start telling me what I believe.
Why don’t you instead explain what you believe about the NRA and justify your support of it.
troll gonna troll.
https://defacingcurrency.wordpress.com/2014/06/03/karl-marx-gun-control/
You really are an ignoramus.
Oh do fuck off. The NRA was founded to address piss poor marksmanship.
Do you also think Trump is great? What a loon
no need to bring in irrelevancies.
+1
Tory spends his time attempting to reframe and disrupt. He does so by baiting with truthiness rather than fact.
You go shooting from the hip blaming the NRA and expect no blowback? Lolz.
I wasn’t blaming the NRA, I was blaming Tory’s stupid and irrelevant Gordon Ramsey metaphor.
“died because of American gun culture”
And because of racism. Framing this as an overriding issue with the NRA renders invisible the extent of the institutional racism at play.
There are many factors at play but the one that stands out to me is the shameful poverty & inequality in the world’s richest nation.
The wealthy have everything and the other 90% of Americans are left to rot.
Probably some gung-ho dickheads who listen to too much Alex Jones / Glenn Beck or other preachers of hate and fear
uh, i can tell already that you’re wrong
We don’t know who killed the police. We do know who killed Castile and Sterling. Whatever else is going on (and I agree poverty is a huge issue in the US), there is racism here, of magnitude.
http://www.dailywire.com/news/7264/5-statistics-you-need-know-about-cops-killing-aaron-bandler
I shouldn’t have to say this but the us media isn’t telling you everything
Politically and socially conservative media says there is no racism, no shit. What are the chances that I can find a website that presents statistics that support Black Lives Matter?
You’ll have to do better than that chris.
Well its late but since you ask:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2015/12/26/a-year-of-reckoning-police-fatally-shoot-nearly-1000/
“In a year-long study, The Washington Post found that the kind of incidents that have ignited protests in many U.S. communities — most often, white police officers killing unarmed black men — represent less than 4 percent of fatal police shootings.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/18/upshot/police-killings-of-blacks-what-the-data-says.html?_r=0
As an economist who has studied racial discrimination, I’ve begun to look at these deaths from a different angle. There is ample statistical evidence of large and persistent racial bias in other areas — from labor markets to online retail markets. So I expected that police prejudice would be a major factor in accounting for the killings of African-Americans. But when I looked at the numbers, that’s not exactly what I found.
https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls
(its a good one if you want to know which ethnicity is killing each other)
Theres more but as I say its late so thats enough for me but don’t let the media fool you all the time
Yet they know more.
/
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/08/fbi-chief-says-ridiculous-guardian-washington-post-better-information-police-shootings
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/31/the-counted-police-killings-2015-young-black-men
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database
And?
Remember how I said above about the chances of finding websites that support Black Live Matter perspective via stats?
Young black men were nine times more likely than other Americans to be killed by police officers in 2015, according to the findings of a Guardian study that recorded a final tally of 1,134 deaths at the hands of law enforcement officers this year.
The Guardian view on killings by US police: why we must keep counting
The Counted has made up for the Obama administration’s failings, but the lack of oversight remains. So we will restart our count of people killed by police until the government does its job
Read more
Despite making up only 2% of the total US population, African American males between the ages of 15 and 34 comprised more than 15% of all deaths logged this year by an ongoing investigation into the use of deadly force by police. Their rate of police-involved deaths was five times higher than for white men of the same age.
from one of Joe’s links.
Your main argument seems to be that the stats are skewed because black men are more involved in encounters with police. But that’s another example of institutional racism. A chart of figures means fuck all if you can’t or won’t understand the social dynamics at play.
It’s difficult to see the point in disabusing chris73 of his statistics. When you show Black people are disproportionately victims of police police shootings, like last year when they were 9 times more likely to be killed than other Americans, the people Chris is referencing move on to the ‘if onlys’ As Gary Younge writes
Edit: Snap joe90
There are many things about this incident which are very, very unusual. Now it seems things are even stranger as apparently one of the snipers taken alive by authorities is a woman.
Yeah, I’m wary of commenting on this shooting itself – too unusual and too many uncertainties still.
The bottom line is that racism is the root cause of white cop shoots unarmed (or in this recent case, declared/permitted) black male. What else can you call it?
IMO this is institutional racism (even on the part of black cops) that has existed since the abolition of slavery. The US fought a bloody fucking civil war because half the country wanted to retain slavery FFS!
White cop instinctively perceives black male to be armed and dangerous therefore shoots first and doesn’t ask questions, content in the knowledge that they’re very likely to be let off the hook with a wet bus ticket. The state lines up an all white or mostly white grand jury who throws the case or recommends minimal penalty. This is yet another example of institutional racism, it’s wrapped into the cultural fabric of the US.
With regard to gun culture the view of many American’s I know is that they wish to bare arms because they fear their government, not their peers. On some levels I can understand this given the US government is the most murderous the world has ever seen and, if in its best interests, wouldn’t hesitate to put down its own citizens with lethal force. In fact it already has, via drone strikes abroad.
“And because of racism. Framing this as an overriding issue with the NRA renders invisible the extent of the institutional racism at play.”
You’re right about the possible influence of prejudice, weka. However, I did put a link in the post that touches on that issue.
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-map-us-police-killings
yep – Obama says it well,
“African Americans are 30 per cent more likely than whites to be pulled over. After being pulled over, African Americans and Hispanics are three times more likely to be searched. Last year, African Americans were shot by police at more than twice the rate of whites.
“African Americans are arrested at twice the rate of whites; African Americans defendants are 75 per cent more likely to be charged with offenses carrying mandatory minimums. They receive sentences that are almost ten per cent longer than comparable whites arrested for the same crime.”
http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/81941436/after-dallas-shootings-race-violence-fears-bend-direction-of-us-presidential-campaign
“And because of racism.”
There appears to be some truth to that.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36745862 – Gunman wanted to kill whites.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11671436 – Dallas shooting: Suspect ‘wanted to kill white officers’
Read the stats on this area Peter – the truth is pretty obvious
They use the poverty draft to get Blacks to fight their empire’s foreign wars. Now there are hundreds of thousands of these used up military trained men and women back on the mainland.
I am interested to know whether the collaborators the authorities captured were also military.
The stats (at least one of them any way) are that blacks are overwhelmingly killed by blacks and whites are overwhelmingly killed by whites
https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls
The stats ‘on this’ are as reported in the links.
Black shooter reported to have said he wanted to kill whites.
That truth is really obvious.
On this point alone there is no wriggle room.
It sadly is what it is.
And that is racism to you Peter – rightttttt
How can it not be when an attacker targets one based solely on their race.
That’d surely be a textbook definition of racism.
I don’t get what your ulterior motive is or what point you are back handedly trying to make.
What race is white?
I suppose I have a view of racism that includes the power dynamic.
If it’s a discussion on the wider aspects of what constitutes racism, then go ahead and start a topic. I reckon it could even be guest post.
As both of us are anti racist, I’m sure we’ll have much to agree on.
In this instance, as a response to ‘racism is involved’, I agree, statements alleging the targeting of whites is fair evidence of that.
As for what race is white, well, that’s a little secondary school reasoning to take seriously, but if your inclined, how about you define it while you also tell us what race is black?
Peter it was you who imo misconstrued (deliberately or mistakenly only you know) what weka’s point was that you responded to initially.
weka – “And because of racism. Framing this as an overriding issue with the NRA renders invisible the extent of the institutional racism at play.”
peter – “There appears to be some truth to that.” and gave 2 examples where, as you state later are, “statements alleging the targeting of whites is fair evidence of that.”
I don’t think you are discussing in good faith. You think a gunman killing white people and saying they are going to kill more is an example of institutional racism? – do you even know what the term means? You devalue the whole discussion with attempted smartarse distractions peter – I thought you had a bit more in you than that.
+1. It would be nice if people would actually put some effort into their arguments instead of just the smartarsery.
“Peter it was you who imo misconstrued (deliberately or mistakenly only you know) what weka’s point was that you responded to initially.”
No, I agreed racism did play a part in this shooting. That is a fact. A be all and end all to the point answered. What’s in your head is superfluous.
“I don’t think you are discussing in good faith. You think a gunman killing white people and saying they are going to kill more is an example of institutional racism?”
If you wish to start a topic on institutionalised racism, go ahead and we’ll agree on many issues.
I never mentioned or responded to institutionalised racism in any post here. I did however post links where one gunman is reported to have said he was out to kill whites and white officers. Which is of course not institutionalised, but still extreme racism.
“You devalue the whole discussion with attempted smartarse distractions”
Nothing smart arse in anything I’ve written here. I mean I haven’t played games like you have and written banalities like what is white race? You clearly have an agenda yet you won’t state what it is. It’s like you’re just waiting for someone to fall on the wrong side of the debate or make an errant remark so you can jump in and call them a racist. Is that what you are doing?
“I thought you had a bit more in you than that.”
And now you know there’s more than you can safely handle by playing childish games.
So say what you want to say, why you are saying it and what relevance it has to me.
I’m more than happy to answer your points, but enough of the dirty innuendo stuff wimps play. 🙂
“I never mentioned institutionalised racism in any post here.”
no you just responded to a comment that was all about institutional racism. Didn’t you read the comment you responded to? I think you did and then decided to show what a funny wit you are – pity it all backfired.
“so it was ignorance
“I never mentioned institutionalised racism in any post here.”
no you just responded to a comment that was all about institutional racism. Didn’t you read the comment you responded to? I think you did and then decided to show what a funny wit you are – pity it all backfired.”
Again, I responded to the statement that racism was involved in these shootings.
If I’m asked ‘Is there institutionalised racism in the US police force’, I’d say probably definitely given the evidence. But that wasn’t what I addressed so you’ll have to live with it.
Backfired, funny wit, lol, “what is white race?” I rest my case, kid. 🙂
Peter you seem to be struggling
weka – “And because of racism. Framing this as an overriding issue with the NRA renders invisible the extent of the institutional racism at play.”
peter – “There appears to be some truth to that.” and gave 2 examples where, as you state later are, “statements alleging the targeting of whites is fair evidence of that.”
see?
I think I’ll leave it there – I make it a point to try not to engage with those who aren’t up to it – sorry for taking up your time.
http://thestandard.org.nz/dallas/#comment-1200699
My reply clearly states a response only to the line “And because of racism”
Why be so disingenuous to attribute my post to mean something else based on what I didn’t respond to?
Bad form there, it has to be said.
Seems the only struggle is for you to eek out a foothold on credibility island. Frame it however you see fit, but you don’t hold the moral high ground over me here.
What you do or don’t do as a result is your own personal responsibility, kiddo.
Enjoy that silence lol
This is after two defenceless black people are shot dead by authorities, and is followed by widespread protest against such killings. The shooter was at one such protest. Its amazing what you can come up with though when you drop all context…
It’s a revolution in bites. With guns.
A revolution like 1789 or 1917 played out in America today would be very, very ugly.
Hmmmm those revolutions (and/or their immediate aftermaths) were pretty ugly in of themselves.
I reckon that these guys are former military.
actually, probably former vets.
They cant be ISIS.
The Police seem to know everything about the suspects within 24 hours, bars they drank at, girllriend/boyfriends, and what they had for breakfast.
link?
I was being a bit sarc,
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/micah-johnson-dallas-shooting_us_577fb6b5e4b0c590f7e8f3ce?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Micah%20Johnson%20Reportedly%20Identified%20As%20Dallas%20Shooting%20Suspect&utm_content=Micah%20Johnson%20Reportedly%20Identified%20As%20Dallas%20Shooting%20Suspect+CID_cc4026481e2da1e742efc886045268ad&utm_source=Email%20marketing%20software&utm_term=Read%20More
as I thought, the main sniper appears to have been a US Army Reservist and Afghanistan veteran.
America’s newest millionaire.
This is the guy carrying the assault rifle in the middle of the protest, right?
America is so screwed up.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0226/7001/articles/PHOTO–Police-Release-Picture-of-Dallas-Sniper-Shooting-Suspect.jpg?v=1467951464
Police say Mark Hughes is no longer a suspect, and has been released from custody.
<a href="https://nz.news.yahoo.com/world/a/32013707/dallas-shooting-one-officer-dead-three-injured-during-protest-over-fatal-black-shootings/#page1
It’s my belief that 2016 is shaping up to be as pivotal a year as 1968.
President Obama’s remarks
“The dead are working people, most probably union members, mortgage payers, parents; good people just like you and me.”
But some of them like pulling their guns out and shooting at the unemployed, often disenfranchised, renters and homeless, sons and daughters; good people just like you and me.”
“The report that the suspect killed himself is not accurate. He is deceased because of the detonation of the bomb.”
Chief Brown said the suspect was upset about Black Lives Matter and wanted to kill white police officers.
“The suspect said he was upset about Black Lives Matter. He said he was upset about the recent police shootings. The suspect said he was upset at white people the suspect said he wanted to kill white people, especially white officers.”
DALLAS SHOOTINGS: Snipers kill five police officers in ‘deadliest day for law enforcement since 9/11’
<a href="https://nz.news.yahoo.com/world/a/32013707/dallas-shooting-one-officer-dead-three-injured-during-protest-over-fatal-black-shootings/#page1
The police sent in a remote controlled bomb to kill the suspect with.
That’s a paramilitary tactic.
It was a SWAT team that ended the standoff, CV. Their job is to use paramilitary tactics in situations like these. The exploding robot is an interesting variant, kinda like a slow motion drone strike.
Glad you agree with me that paramilitary tactics were used here, TRP. However, SWAT teams are still police units, not murder teams.
You do bring up the important point of how the method they used to kill the perp was similar to a drone strike.
Of course, when you think about it, a remote controlled ground vehicle is a drone just as much as a remote controlled air vehicle.
Clearly, it wasn’t murder. Lawful killing is probably a more accurate phrase. They were authorised to use deadly force, so their actions were acceptable in law.
It was a shame the murderer couldn’t be taken alive, because it might have been useful to get to explore his motivations, but I seriously doubt many Americans are going to be bothered about his demise.
Your usual croc tears, TRP.
Say what? I’m not shedding any tears for the killer, CV. Sorry if the facts are difficult for you to comprehend, but my comments in this sub thread are entirely reasonable.
Good. The less danger to other police the better.
“Real America is coming after you”
Blood soaked, violent, imperialist, racist, vengeful.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/joe-walsh-war-obama-black-lives-matter-dallas-article-1.2703883
[The link is to an interview with ex cop from Baltimore. Jenny, and others, can you please put a brief intro to links like that, thanks. TRP]
Is there any confirmation yet that there was more than one shooter?
Yes , its one lone gunman
“Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson said that the suspect killed by the police, identified as Micah Johnson, 25, appeared to be the sole gunman and to have no links with any international terrorist organizations.”
I think at the start they were saying 4 snipers shooting from roofs and the police weren’t sure where the firing was coming from. Heard someone on the news say that the noise was amplified in that downtown area maybe making it sound like more people shooting. Looks like they think it was one shooter now.
and they say that guy was just a carpenter in the corp of engineers.
Heres some stats from:
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database
Total black deaths so far this year: 137 of 569
Total white deaths so far this year: 279 of 569
Black and unarmed counts for 24 of 569
White and unarmed counts for 42 of 569
Why show the “Total” stats when the “Per million” stats clearly show that blacks are killed by police at a rate more than twice as high as whites when you take population size into account?
Per million black: 3.25
Per million white: 1.41
Because I don’t think race is as big a factor as the media are making it, I think its economic factors that are more important
And economic factors disproportionately affect African Americans, which brings us back to institutional racism.
I disagree, I don’t think its deliberate racism
Do you know what institutional racism is?
One of the witnesses to the 1968 Kerner report was Dr Kenneth Clark on the recurrence problem.
I read that report. . . of the 1919 riot in Chicago, and it is as if I were reading the report of the investigating committee on the Harlem riot of ’35, the report of the investigating committee on the Harlem riot of ’43, the report of the McCone Commission on the Watts riot.
I must again in candor say to you members of this Commission–it is a kind of Alice in Wonderland–with the same moving picture re-shown over and over again, the same analysis, the same recommendations, and the same inaction.
http://faculty.washington.edu/qtaylor/documents_us/Kerner%20Report.htm
Interesting arguments in the reports recommendations against a heavily militarized police force.
Slogans such as ‘gun culture’ are for shallow thinkers
Such events in the USA are not a surprise and were ‘predicted’ many years ago
Yeah, predicted in dystopian Hollywood movies
Waiting….
Eric Boehlert
@EricBoehlert
Dallas gunman described as ““gentle loner” yet? that’s how NYT described gunman who shot up Planned Parenthood;
https://twitter.com/EricBoehlert/status/751504958831276032
Wonder if a black guy would make it to court after pulling a gun on a crowd.
Nah, he’d be dead.
Michael Strickland, the 36-year-old man accused of pulling a gun on Don’t Shoot PDX protesters marching outside Portland’s Justice Center, had a round in the chamber of the loaded handgun he swept in front of the crowd and five other magazines of ammunition on him Thursday night, according to court records.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2016/07/man_accused_of_pulling_gun_on.html
earlier report
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2016/07/dont_shoot_pdx_protesting_poli.html
The wingnuts are waking up.
.
In the era of Facebook Live and smart phones, it’s hard to come to any conclusion other than the fact that police brutality toward African-Americans is a pervasive problem that has been going on for generations. Seriously, absent video proof, how many innocent African-Americans have been beaten or killed over the last hundred years by the police—with little or no media coverage or scrutiny?
[…]
It would be hard to overestimate the impact that smart phone cameras have had on forcing us to grapple with the fact that this is, in fact, a very real (and all-too-common) problem. The streaming video of the aftermath of the killing of Philando Castile appears to be the latest tragic example. (Note: We still don’t know exactly what happened, so I’m going to withhold judgment on this specific incident—but the video evidence we’ve all seen does not look good for the police.)
And if there’s any good to come from this horrible trend, it may be that the scales are coming off the eyes of a lot of well meaning, if naive, white Americans. My hope is that this will change public opinion to the point that we can change public policy.
http://dailycaller.com/2016/07/08/a-confession/
.
I think the evidence would show that the vast majority of police do their jobs with the greatest professionalism possible. I don’t think that’s a sufficient answer to the reality of lingering mistrust between police and minority communities, especially in certain areas of the country. And the proliferation of cell phone video recording has really confirmed (in their minds) something they have long anecdotally believed or been taught – that police often interact with minority communities in different ways than they do with the white community.
And here’s the most important part: when they do so, they never or almost never face punishment.
[…]
The most important safety valve to prevent violence like we saw in Dallas last night is the belief that when officers do go off the rails, the legal system will punish them accordingly. If minority communities (and everyone else, for that matter) believed that, resort to reprisal killings would be either non existent or far less frequent.
But they don’t, and there’s good reason for that. And that is because a huge, overwhelming segment of America does not really give a damn what cops do in the course of maintaining order because they assume (probably correctly) that abuse at the hands of police will never happen to them. As long as the cops keep people away from my door, they have my blessing handling “the thugs” in whatever way they see fit.
I see the attitude all the time even in the comments to the stories I write here at RedState.
http://www.redstate.com/leon_h_wolf/2016/07/08/uncomfortable-reason-came-dallas-yesterday/
“The dead are working people, most probably union members, mortgage payers, parents; good people just like you and me.”
This needs to go in the Life in New Zealand section of the the Listener.
Americans killing Americans, cant be that bad eh