Open mike 09/01/2021

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71 comments on “Open mike 09/01/2021”

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    1. 1.1

      Paua & turban shells if you know where to look, fossils at Curio Bay. Fine trout in the Tahakopa too.

  2. 2
    • Yes Caitlin’s amazing part of the country. Amazing waterfalls. When we were there, many many tourist camper vans. It would be interesting to know how crowded it is now
    1. 2.1

      I first cycled the Catlins coast in 1986. Rough gravel roads, plenty of punctures, sea lions and yellow eyed penguins / hoiho. No tourists, though! My brother in law is heading there soon who usually heads overseas, so guesss it will be crowded (comparatively).

  3. 3

    Can Trump be managed for the next 10 – 11 days?

    Andre you were spot on that Trump was going to do something unusual regarding the inauguration.

      1. 3.1.1

        Well, this could be the final straw for the Trump:

        https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/434263/us-president-donald-trump-banned-from-twitter

        Permanent now it is.

        I do hope the US military brass have redeployed that cupboard in the White House kitchen somebody here was talking about yesterday. Last used in the final days of Richard Nixon for the purpose of redirecting any nuclear command to umm… no-where. That was in case Nixon lost the plot. The chances of Trump contemplating such an act is far greater I should think.

        1. 3.1.1.1

          I thought I heard banned permanently from Facebook on Aljazeera TV at midday NZ time. So looks like both.

          What about when Trump is not the President do the bans still apply and would he be subject to criminal prosecution for inciting disorder?

          Trump is probably being micro managed to avoid a catastrophe.

        1. 3.1.2.1

          Harris.

          The twentieth amendment says:

          Section 3. If, at the time fixed for the beginning of the term of the President, the President elect shall have died, the Vice President elect shall become President.

          We're now past the time where there's still any ambiguity about the election and succession if there's any death or disability.

    2. 3.2

      News sites are saying that top Generals of the US armed forces have been spoken to and have agreed not to accept any orders to invade another country or launch any nuclear bombs, or other reckless acts without first getting permission from both houses of their government.

      The Dems are also meant to be launching a second impeachment attempt on Monday US time. They have also asked the vice president Pence to maybe invoke the 25th amendment to remove him instead.

  5. 5

    and in vegan-curious news:

    I can report that the dairy-free almond-studded magnum..

    ..totally nails it…

    ..in a blind-test..you would swear it is cow-based..

    dunno how they did it..

    ..but did it they did…

    1. 5.1

      I'm not sure yours is the most convincing endorsement.

      How long has it been since you've had an in-depth comprehensive acquaintance with the delights of dairy products?

          1. 5.1.1.2.1

            @ sacha..

            pretty much…

            all of these meat/dairy products can be made locally..

            no need for them to be shipped around the world..

          2. 5.1.1.2.2

            I'm guessing the ecological footprint isn't that much better when compared to relocalising food. It's a very industrial product and as such needs big industrial processes, plus the whole global food supply issue. It's a good for vegans and others avoiding dairy, not so good for the environment.

            NZ's industrial dairying issue is one of capitalism and export. We could raise enough cows in NZ regeneratively to meet our domestic dairy needs.

            3. 5.1.1.2.2.3

              your guess there on the environmental footprint is way out..

              It is much smaller than meat…

              but I still think the tipping points will be with duplicate vegan options ..

              then you have to insist animals must suffer/die..

              when the cheaper duplicate cruelty-free kobe-beef/whatever..is sitting next to it…

              that cruelty-free option will become the new norm…

              and yes..as already noted our animal-based export industries are on a road to nowhere. .

              1. 5.1.1.2.2.3.1

                all the analyses I've seen on food impacts on ecosystems are on global figure which don't apply to NZ. Feel free to post some NZ stats, I'd be interested.

                Whole ecosystems die for monsantoed, monocropped soy and grains, you don't have moral high ground here.

                2. 5.1.1.2.2.3.1.2

                  @weka..

                  soy-fact:…approx 85% of soy is grown to feed animals..

                  (glad to be able to clarify that for you…so you won't need to repeat that anti-vegan slur used by many..

                  that is so far off the mark..eh..?..)

                  1. 5.1.1.2.2.3.1.2.1

                    NZ regenag doesn't monocrop soy for human or animal consumption.

                    But good to know you have no NZ stats. Like I said, global stats are not useful for the NZ situation.

                    1. 5.1.1.2.2.3.1.2.1.1

                      Soy cropping in NZ – plenty of potential for growth, some reckon.

                      Six ‘star’ crops – soy, hemp, chickpeas, oats, buckwheat and quinoa – could represent new opportunities for New Zealand farmers.

                      Market-Led Trials of Specialty Grains and Pulses in Canterbury
                      Buckwheat, soybeans and quinoa trials were undertaken in Canterbury this year, comprising three of the six ‘star’ specialty grains and pulses identified by Our Land and Water research as having high potential for New Zealand farmers

                      Any widespread rebalancing away from NZ's intensive dairy and meat farming might be a way down the track. Reducing cow numbers by (say) 25% and cultivating soy and other grain crops instead could be a way forward – lower greenhouse gas emissions for a start.

                      When will NZ be real about our scary future?
                      A University of Otago study released in January [2020] agrees that New Zealand beef and lamb production is more efficient than the global average, but confirms that a vegan diet is far less harmful than one based on animal products. The researchers say that, if all adults in this country adopted plant-based diets, the impact would equal a 59 percent reduction in car emissions and save up to $20 billion in health costs over the lifetime of the present New Zealand population.

                      Disclaimer: I'm not vegan or vegetarian, nor do I personally advocate for those lifestyle choices.

        3. 5.1.1.3

          @ ad

          I have been told the vegan trumpets are good..

          I am yet to try one..

          I also never really was a big fan of the trumpet..

          ..it always seemed to be trying too hard.

          ..and just ended up too busy ..

          the magnum is quite simple in comparison..

          the creamy vanilla centre..

          and almond-studded chocolate..

      2. 5.1.2

        about 23 years..

        I rank it up there with the fake meat that fools carnivores..

        as a major step forward..

        a landscape changer..

        ..the ideal situation as I see it would be each meat-based option having also a vegan option..

        indistinguishable from the animal-based one in taste/texture..

        costing no more and hopefully costing less..in all ways..

        ..then the choice will only be whether or not the consumer insists on an animal being hurt…

        then we will see some serious change…

        1. 5.1.2.1

          Had those plant based burger patties a few months back – I had the "beef" and compadre had the "chicken". I found the "beef" oddly gritty, and the "chicken" was just mediocre at best. The vegan technology is now at the stage of approximating the worst cuts of actual meat cooked badly.

          And yet folks still claim it to be "indistinguishable". Do the taste-testers get the "one animal based, one plant based, side by side – tell us which is which" test? I doubt it.

          Knowing my luck, a decent and cheap plant-based scotch fillet will appear on the market just after I drop dead.

          1. 5.1.2.1.1

            Riverton Tavern pull their Blue Cod straight off the boat.

            Also you can air freight whole Stewart Island Salmon up. Wrap in tinfoil and pack half a cup of couscous around them. Its a big reveal at the table.

          2. 5.1.2.1.2

            @mcflock..

            did you have the 'beyond meat's ones..

            or some other approximation..?

            'cos there have always been pretend meat things..

            ..most of them crap..

            it is these new ones that are the game-changer…

              1. 5.1.2.1.2.1.1

                I remember the same chatter how this was the 'game changer' five years ago.

                Apart from a few mega corp burger chains buying in for market share purposes, there's been no wholesale move to frankenfoods, and certainly none of the wishful thinking pole flip.

                Regardless, I'd still eat the real stuff anyway, as I do – Organic, free range and locally reared.

              2. 5.1.2.1.2.1.2

                my understanding is that duplicates of all current meat-options are being developed..

                this is a huge market..

                the economic-imperatives are strong..

          3. 5.1.2.1.3

            @ mcflock..

            a blind taste-test was done @ mystery creek farmers thing…

            a chef cooked both the same..they were cubed/tooth-picked..

            and passing punters were asked to say which they preferred..

            from memory it was about 50/50 .,which is pretty stunning when one of those 50's was the plant-based one..

            1. 5.1.2.1.3.1

              bugger "preferred". If they're "preferred" there's a difference.

              If the question was "which one is meat?" and they only averaged 50/50 correct, that is a "duplicate".

              edit: a slightly lesser objection is that if it has to be cooked by a chef to pass muster, it’s no good to me. I’m not a chef. But for such gimmicks one does want to put one’s best foot forward – unlike the opaque milkbottle debacle when journos couldn’t taste the difference lol

          4. 5.1.2.1.4

            " approximating the worst cuts of actual meat cooked badly."

            Now that is what I call an enthusiastic product endorsement. I love the review but I think I'll give the product a miss.

            1. 5.1.2.1.4.1

              I mean, they were better than the tofu sausages of ten years ago that people were swearing were just like the real thing (when the "real thing" they were copying was 50% bread). Now they're at least almost up to something that's 100% meat.

              Bit like autonomous cars – who knows where they'll be in ten or twenty years.

    1. 7.1

      we're still not paying attention. People are mostly writing them off as nutters, did we not learn anything in 2016?

          1. 7.1.1.1.1

            That whackos can organise and win – in a system as wildly undemocratic as the Repug primaries leading in to the Electoral College.

            1. 7.1.1.1.1.1

              fair call. But then complacency here leads to arms officers phoning in the character checks for an aussie firearms license applicant.

            2. 7.1.1.1.2.2

              Are you saying you think there is no issue in NZ with Trumpian politics? (NewCons, Advance NZ and the Pubic Party aren't the problem, it's Nat/Act)

              1. 7.1.1.1.2.2.1

                I'm asking what the lesson in NZ in 2016 was. I saw one in the US, sure. Did not see a whole lot of ‘organising and winning’ here.

                1. 7.1.1.1.2.2.1.1

                  oh there was organising and there was winning. its just that despite 2016 and the last 4 years, the party that won here is still not inclined to do anything about it, despite their clear majority and the lack of others to blame for their own inaction. Question, is the Labour Party learning? hell, no.

    2. 8.2

      From the article:

      "I don't see how his saying he's going to contest the election is a dog-whistle for people to go out and get violent. I know that some people argue he's always emitting these dog whistles with his words, but I don't see that at all. I think he wanted to fire up the crowd… only relatively few went up to the Capitol… I think anyone who says what Trump said was sort of a coded call to violence is wrong."

      Sounds like a sensible and rational academic, who hasn't been sucked into the hysterical cancel culture to me.

      1. 8.2.1

        From the article:

        "Unlike Benjamin, Dr Hoadley said the rioters were "encouraged by the President", and his attempt at defusing the situation – a one-minute video shot from the safety of the White House lawn – did little to ease tensions, starting with false claims about the election result and praise for the insurrectionists.

        "He did say the right thing that they'd made their point they should now go home… but it was a very mixed message," Dr Hoadley said.

        "It didn't indicate any remorse or any change of view as to his conspiracy theories that he continues to feed his base."

        I would rate Dr. Steve Hoadley (who is recognised as our most experienced analyst of US political affairs) as way above this Benjamin woman who I imagine is a right wing ideologist who supports the US Republican Party.

  10. 10

    There has been some discussion here of the need for increased aerial surveillance in response to Chinese rogue fleets operating near Torres Strait.

    But the character of rogue fishing operations is such that aerial evidence will be disputed, making such actions a farce.

    In this story, Russia and NZ in 'knock out brawl' over fishing vessel in protected Antarctic waters | Stuff.co.nz Russia defends a rogue ship fishing in our Antarctic waters, with apparent impunity.

    Fisheries protection requires the ability to collect physical evidence, and to arrest or confiscate non-compliant vessels. Pressure on these resources is only going to increase – if we mean to keep them, we'd better be prepared to defend them assertively. Russia is known to fire on trespassing vessels. Russia arrests more than 260 North Korean fishermen | Europe News | Al Jazeera

  11. 11

    For anyone who truly cares about New Zealand and the conservation estate, I strongly suggest they Google "Lords of Water – Al Jazeera".

    It is a documentary series which screened recently, showing how business is taking control of this most precious resource.

    We don't want to go the same way in this country, although the warning signs are already there (hence the "NZ Water Forum – Bung the Bore" protest in Canterbury).

    Be vigilant and your grandchildren will be grateful.

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